Useful

**ABrighter2006** · 10-09-2009, 09:50

That's as I understand it Bigeye.

Much more to this then is publically available.

**bigeye** · 10-09-2009, 09:53

Originally Posted by goingsupersonic

Originally Posted by bigeye

Originally Posted by ABrighter2006

Okay - so just who does make the decision to mount a rescue op of this type and in these circumstances?

DSF get's the nod from Downing street.

Also Foreign and defence secretaries according to the article

Willie Whitelaw gave the order to assaullt the Iranian Embassy but I think that was because he was running the shop whilst Mrs Thatcher was galavanting abroad.

**goingsupersonic** · 10-09-2009, 09:55

Presumably after having been advised by the chaps planning the operation that it is workable.

**jagman** · 10-09-2009, 09:55

Originally Posted by bigeye

Willie Whitelaw gave the order to assaullt the Iranian Embassy but I think that was because he was running the shop whilst Mrs Thatcher was galavanting abroad.

To be fair, Willie Whitelaw as a very different breed to our current variety of politicians.

**bigeye** · 10-09-2009, 09:58

Originally Posted by jagman

Originally Posted by bigeye

Willie Whitelaw gave the order to assaullt the Iranian Embassy but I think that was because he was running the shop whilst Mrs Thatcher was galavanting abroad.

To be fair, Willie Whitelaw as a very different breed to our current variety of politicians.

Agreed.

**anotherthing** · 10-09-2009, 10:02

Long time lurker, often visit from PPruNe – ex RN.

Andy S, IMHO you are talking rubbish, you cannot compare

Remember the Royal Irish Patrol taken in Sierra Leonne? They were taken because they miscalculated while doing their jobs.

And

Or how about the SEAL who fell out of helicopeter during Anaconda and had to be rescued

(People who were doing their jobs – so what mistakes were made – that’s what training is for.)

With a Journalist who chose to be where he was despite warnings.

The same journalist who had been kidnapped before.

Now there are two ways of looking at that. After his first kidnapping you could consider him either brave and dedicated, or plain stupid to continue putting himself in harms way. The fact he ignored several warnings tends to put him in the second category in my opinion.

Yes, there may well have been contradictory warnings – some people saying he would be safe until a certain time – but the sensible option would be to consider the worst case.

What was he going to do?

Visit the area until 10 minutes before the Talib were expected to turn up then leave… is that wise? Is it unfair and not 'terribly British' that the Talib turned up early? How dare they??

He had warnings, he should have stayed away.

Instead he chose – his government didn’t force him – to visit the area. Why?
The reason every journalist does things – to get the big scoop, the best story. Doing so would mean he could command more money for future pieces he writes.

The difference between freelancers and embedded journalists is the fact that the unit that accepts (or has forced upon them by command) an embedded journo will to a certain extent assume responsibility for the safety of the hack, as long as he or she does what they are told when they are told. The embedded journo is well briefed and knows what is expected of them regarding conduct... in return they are afforded some protection and will be granted the same effort if a rescue is needed or embarked upon. These journos also accept the risk that comes with working with an active unit.

Freelancers do not have that luxury, but they know that from the outset. They still choose to chase the story and therefore the money. These people (or the media that sponsors them) should be responsible for the provision of any rescue attempts. God knows there are enough ex mil (or even Walts) vying for jobs in theatre in return for bucket loads of cash – let the media use them.

That’s not saying their death is any more acceptable if it comes to it, but at least they would have a choice on whether to accept the contract, and they would get paid a hell of a lot more than the pittance a UK soldier gets paid, who just happens to have to take part in the rescue because his unit was the one tasked with it.

**bobthedog** · 10-09-2009, 10:04

The grandstanding of HMG's decision to authorise the raid was made clear on the 10 o'clock news last night when the BBC's Security correspondent (Frank Gardner) started to explain how the COBRA would have sat and the decision to conduct the rescue would have been taken by senior cabinet/PM level.

It appears that the spin doctors in No10 were working overtime yesterday to try to make it look like Gordon was involved in this all the way.

Frankly Gardner's explanation was full of bullshit and I turned the TV off in disgust.

If Cyclops has had his snot ridden hands anywhere on this operation it would go a long way to explaining why it went so tragically wrong. Gordon Brown has the reverse midas touch.

**Ericfish** · 10-09-2009, 10:11

Originally Posted by bobthedog

The grandstanding of HMG's decision to authorise the raid was made clear on the 10 o'clock news last night when the BBC's Security correspondent (Frank Gardner) started to explain how the COBRA would have sat and the decision to conduct the rescue would have been taken by senior cabinet/PM level.

It appears that the spin doctors in No10 were working overtime yesterday to try to make it look like Gordon was involved in this all the way.

Frankly Gardner's explanation was full of bullshit and I turned the TV off in disgust.

If Cyclops has had his snot ridden hands anywhere on this operation it would go a long way to explaining why it went so tragically wrong. Gordon Brown has the reverse midas touch.

You only have to look to see if there is any domestic political capitol and potential advantage to know that Broons grubby mits are involved.

Good news story, strong leader, world stage....not too mention photo op with guys in black maskers ala Maggie.

The fact its blown up in his face again is irrelevant, the potential was there so he would have been in up to his proverbial....if he had any.

**Grownup_Rafbrat** · 10-09-2009, 10:29

Originally Posted by tropper66

DANGER SPIN DOCTORS AT WORK

Truth is the first casualty of war ....

**spike7451** · 10-09-2009, 10:45

Comment made on Britmodeller by a 'civvie' sums it up really:

Just saw on the BBC that a Para died during the rescue of that New York Times Journalist.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8246514.stm

Now I salute the troops who did it, but say they should not have been asked to.

Its about time these journalists / do-gooders etc accepted that if you go into a war zone and get taken hostage why should some poor soldier have to give his life to get you back!

It should be pointed out that they go there at thier own risk and no one will come for them.

Sorry for the rant but these people just take the wee

Julien

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/i...7&#entry388547