How Labour plotted to smear daughter of new army chief....

**StickyEnd** · 07-09-2009, 06:19

Originally Posted by jumpinjarhead

Originally Posted by StickyEnd

You think so? The broad bush I am using is in reference to "con-men". I am happy to go evidence only. Are you?

Am I right in assuming that it is the word "creationist" that you don't like? (alongside calling them snake-oil sellers?)

Is your use of the term "bush" intentional or a Freudian slip?

It is the entire assertion. It is overbroad as to each category of persons you mention and in your combining them as you did with the catch all comparison to snake oil. I have no doubt as to each category of persons cited, you can find examples that use the rhetorical techniques that seem to bother you.

However, and this is the crux of my point, you cannot prove (to use your scientific preference) that all persons in each group and in combination use all the rhetorical techniques you cite. Indeed, such breathtaking generalizations, especially when used to criticize, IMHO suffer from the same negatives that you attribute to those rhetorical techniques you have cited. The common theme among them is that they avoid discussion of the substantive issues.

Oh, I see now. Yes you are correct, I did generalise. It was not meant to mislead, but to highlight the groups containing individuals that use those methods the most on a regular basis.

**Idrach** · 07-09-2009, 07:30

Originally Posted by StickyEnd

Oh, I see now. Yes you are correct, I did generalise. It was not meant to mislead, but to highlight the groups containing individuals that use those methods the most on a regular basis.

It has to be said that the use of rhetorical tricks by lawyers to advance their client's view is exactly that - a trick. Pretty much ditto the politicians, except that the client is generally the pol's own career. Both are exploiting the soundbite tendency of the media and the generally poor level of education in logic and debating amongst the target audience (a jury, the public at large) etc. Some of them are also personally slimy ...

Creationists, snake-oil-salesmen, Ashie and Daily Hate journos, now it doesn't need to be that broad a brush ...

**ashie** · 07-09-2009, 13:13

Originally Posted by Idrach

Originally Posted by StickyEnd

Oh, I see now. Yes you are correct, I did generalise. It was not meant to mislead, but to highlight the groups containing individuals that use those methods the most on a regular basis.

It has to be said that the use of rhetorical tricks by lawyers to advance their client's view is exactly that - a trick. Pretty much ditto the politicians, except that the client is generally the pol's own career. Both are exploiting the soundbite tendency of the media and the generally poor level of education in logic and debating amongst the target audience (a jury, the public at large) etc. Some of them are also personally slimy ...

Creationists, snake-oil-salesmen, Ashie and Daily Hate journos, now it doesn't need to be that broad a brush ...

ARRSE.

**The_Coming_Man** · 07-09-2009, 13:33

Labour Party: Self serving scum, Liars, traitors, thieves, apologists for terror and purveyors of blood for oil and terrorists.

Being smeared by them is probably the biggest compliment a person could have.

**Idrach** · 07-09-2009, 13:46

Originally Posted by ashie

Originally Posted by Idrach

Creationists, snake-oil-salesmen, Ashie and Daily Hate journos, now it doesn't need to be that broad a brush ...

ARRSE.

I really ought to take up fishing ...

**cpunk** · 07-09-2009, 15:09

I am in no sense a New Labour supporter or apologist but this has got to be one of the flimsiest stories I have ever seen... yet we're all falling over ourselves to believe it. It's amazing how uncynical many of us are about the media when they say things we would like to believe.

**Idrach** · 07-09-2009, 15:43

Originally Posted by cpunk

I am in no sense a New Labour supporter or apologist but this has got to be one of the flimsiest stories I have ever seen... yet we're all falling over ourselves to believe it. It's amazing how uncynical many of us are about the media when they say things we would like to believe.

Nah, it's just that the cynicism about the Gubmint is so all encompassing it swamps what is actually quite a high level of cynicism about the media.

But I would really, really love for Joyce to have spun this as a false story to the Daily Hate, to give himself some obscure kudos to his self-serving resignation and be outed for it. Ideally in the 'Fabian Review' but I'll settle for anywhere sufficiently public.

**Cuddles** · 07-09-2009, 15:47

I would like to respond to ZANU Liarbour's smear campaign with a vile assertion about Tony Blair's daughter:

She's a fat, ginger munter.

What, that's true and not in the same context as slurring Sir David's charming daughter? What is your problem!

**DIVVYCIVVY** · 07-09-2009, 16:08

This is how things are done today, you don't debate, the truth can go fuck itself, you just stand up and say to anyone who disagrees with you that they are a peadofile, and that they have sex with animals.

The public does the rest, just like they did with "NEW! X-TREME Super cool Labour party! Things can only get better! We promise you the world!

Fuckers.

**pombsen-armchair-warrior** · 07-09-2009, 16:12

Originally Posted by DIVVYCIVVY

you just stand up and say to anyone who disagrees with you that they are a peadofile, and that they have sex with animals.

Would that be single or double?

**DIVVYCIVVY** · 07-09-2009, 16:23

I spelt that wrong didn't i? Balls you know what i mean, a nonce, a perv, a slot badger, a bush dodger, a small bean regarder, a nut administrator, a bent ref, a crazy world of arthur brown, a fence fowl, a free willy, a shrub rocketeer.

**gnome** · 07-09-2009, 16:24

The sooner this bunch of clowns have the balls to go to the Country and let us say who Governs us the better. I don't think that even new labour can get much lower than they now have reached.

**Shorncliffe_Rifles** · 10-09-2009, 13:27

And who or what would be the dream team to pull our sorry arrses out of this mire?

Any nominations for the following positions welcomed.

Prime Minister - Jeremy Clarkson
Home Secretary - Mr Mackay
Chancellor of the Exchequer - The Dragon Dens team
Defense - Andy Mc Nabb
Health - Nurse Gladys
Housing - Kirstie Allsopp
Foreign Secretary - Alf Garnet
Culture - Jordan
Transport - The Stig

**mysteron** · 10-09-2009, 13:32

Originally Posted by Shorncliffe_Rifles

And who or what would be the dream team to pull our sorry arrses out of this mire?

Any nominations for the following positions welcomed.

Prime Minister - Jeremy Clarkson
Home Secretary - Mr Mackay
Chancellor of the Exchequer - The Dragon Dens team
Defense - Andy Mc Nabb
Health - Nurse Gladys
Housing - Kirstie Allsopp
Foreign Secretary - Alf Garnet
Culture - Jordan
Transport - The Stig

I bold the key ones I diagree with, clearly Gen Sir Richard Dannat takes his rightful place. Culture - simples: Sir Terry Wogan :D