Originally Posted by corridor_of_Powers

Originally Posted by arko

There hasn't been ONE attack in the US either since 9/11, pretty amazing really.

Have you never seen "The Unit" or "24"? There's attacks on a weekly basis. They only stopped during the writers strike.

There have been no "successful" operations in the US since 9/11. All the CIA satellite intel espionage by iPhone plays it's part but has very little context without having eyes in the area where the terrorism is being sourced.

Anyone who served here on my wavelength? Or am i talking complete pish as usual?

There have been none here either since July 2005. In fact I don't think that there has been a Muslim terrorist linked attack on the whole of the EU, since in 2006, the failed suitcase bomb in Germany and the foiled aeroplane mass bomb attacks in the UK. I find it difficult to believe though, that the 'stan conflict is detracting them. Rather, I think that the undermanned and overworked
M.I. crowd and police Special Branch have stopped it from happening.

There are many alternative countries to Afghanistan to train terrorists in, If we're so worried about terrorists being trained up elsewhere, why not just let it happen, and concentrate all of our efforts on defence and defeating it at home. Surely better, if we stopped p*ssing about with the ones we know about here, came down hard on them and kicked the fcukers out and into the same pot in Afghanistan. Who gives a ff if they were born here, or re their fcuking human rights. Kick out all of the hate preachers and their converts and reinforce our border controls, that would be the better option. Our own night of the long knives. Then, every so often, bang in a week of air strikes at whatever region our gathered intelligence indicates.

Originally Posted by Stonker

It is the best question to ask, and the best one to which to demand an answer, because in insisting on it , you force them to acknowledge that 'winning' applies only to wars of the sort described by Clausewitz.

From that recognition comes the need to understand what 'success' might look like - and only with a clear and realistic view of what success might be like, can you go on and develop a plan that will bring to bear the appropriate resources.

A profound insight Stonker. Indeed it emphasizes the continued relevance and immutable nature of the principles of warfare that underlie all combat. The first and fundamental one being the "objective."

Military history is replete with examples where nations failed to understand the criticality of this principle in that even if all the other principles are followed, the effort may still fail. Some include the US effort in Vietnam, the USSR effort in Afghanistan, our ill-fated involvement in Somalia and a number of aspects of the NATO effort in the Balkans.

Getting the objective right is doubly important in COIN/CT operations and it is made that much more difficult by the political and cultural ambiguities that are inherent in such operations. another problematic dimension from the western standpoint especially is the usual coalition that is involved where individual nations may see the objective differently due to domestic political issues or other factors.

Not saying your wrong Monty re "could be trained anywhere" but disagree with chucking people out. Operations in NI inform us that you observe, jark weapons and neuter the cells you know about, you don't chuck em out cos they only get replaced by cells you know nothing about. You also don't brutalise innocent UK citizens in front of their kids cos you just breed a new wave of activists that up to that point were only interested in Pingu and Xbox's.

Another point is that extremists are leaving the UK to fight in 'Stan. Your garb and tongue say Egyptian mate but your soft feet say Nike's bought in JJB Doncaster. Better there than here, I think that is an allied strategy, not the only strategy. Well OK it might be the only strategy.

For those who can cope with it, I caught on lunchtime BBC Radio 2 just now, the tail end of a discussion on the Jeremy Vine Show around the question "Are we losing in Afghanistan?".

Before it descended into the usual old bollix from the uninformed, idle, deluded, ignorant and opinionated pondlife on whom the audience ratings depend, there was a valuable contribution from (among others) James Fergusson, author of "A Billion Mullets" - sorry that's actually "A Million Bullets" , an excellent factual book centred around Brit troops fighting in Afg in '06.

You can catch it on the BBC R2 website Listen Again pages for the next 7 days. Scroll forward to the second 30 minute slot of the 2 hour long show.

Maybe I'll post a link later.[i]

Originally Posted by corridor_of_Powers

Not saying your wrong Monty re "could be trained anywhere" but disagree with chucking people out. Operations in NI inform us that you observe, jark weapons and neuter the cells you know about, you don't chuck em out cos they only get replaced by cells you know nothing about. You also don't brutalise innocent UK citizens in front of their kids cos you just breed a new wave of activists that up to that point were only interested in Pingu and Xbox's.

Another point is that extremists are leaving the UK to fight in 'Stan.[b] Your garb and tongue say Egyptian mate but your soft feet say Nike's bought in JJB Doncaster. Better there than here, I think that is an allied strategy, not the only strategy. Well OK it might be the only strategy.

Tony Blair said that the underground bombing had changed the name of the game and that hate preachers etc., would be kicked out. Hot air as usual. But if they, their converts and followers were kicked out, there would be no chance of young Muslims being radicalised, limiting the potential growth of new cells. I don't think that I suggested or inferred brutalising innocents, if I did, it came over wrongly. If by innocents however, you refer to an extremists' family, tough, they have already been radicalised and are next generation terrorists. The extremists who are known to have left the UK to fight, can remain out there. Saves the bother of sending them back.

I'm sure that you realise that this is my personal wish, rather than see our military out there for the next thirty years. Also, that I know that it can never happen. How could it, when the PC Brigade have even meddled with our Army, which has to give priority to 'Law of Armed Conflict', which I believe is known as 'Reasons never to shoot'. Some in this country, are rather a pathetic bunch nowadays, not much in the way of backbone. Not meant personally of course.

Originally Posted by Monty417

Tony Blair said that the underground bombing had changed the name of the game and that hate preachers etc., would be kicked out. Hot air as usual. But if they, their converts and followers were kicked out, there would be no chance of young Muslims being radicalised, limiting the potential growth of new cells. I don't think that I suggested or inferred brutalising innocents, if I did, it came over wrongly. If by innocents however, you refer to an extremists' family, tough, they have already been radicalised and are next generation terrorists. The extremists who are known to have left the UK to fight, can remain out there. Saves the bother of sending them back.

I'm sure that you realise that this is my personal wish, rather than see our military out there for the next thirty years. Also, that I know that it can never happen. How could it, when the PC Brigade have even meddled with our Army, which has to give priority to 'Law of Armed Conflict', which I believe is known as 'Reasons never to shoot'. Some in this country, are rather a pathetic bunch nowadays, not much in the way of backbone. Not meant personally of course.

Nice one, mucker! Care to explain what you're demonstrating about?

MsG

Monty I understand your intent. I would say that we probably have a similar intent. I disagree with your tactical ideas, that is all mate.

We are deviating the thread now. Stop that, it's silly.

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Originally Posted by Monty417

Tony Blair said that the underground bombing had changed the name of the game and that hate preachers etc., would be kicked out. Hot air as usual. But if they, their converts and followers were kicked out, there would be no chance of young Muslims being radicalised, limiting the potential growth of new cells. I don't think that I suggested or inferred brutalising innocents, if I did, it came over wrongly. If by innocents however, you refer to an extremists' family, tough, they have already been radicalised and are next generation terrorists. The extremists who are known to have left the UK to fight, can remain out there. Saves the bother of sending them back.

I'm sure that you realise that this is my personal wish, rather than see our military out there for the next thirty years. Also, that I know that it can never happen. How could it, when the PC Brigade have even meddled with our Army, which has to give priority to 'Law of Armed Conflict', which I believe is known as 'Reasons never to shoot'. Some in this country, are rather a pathetic bunch nowadays, not much in the way of backbone. Not meant personally of course.

Nice one, mucker! Care to explain what you're demonstrating about?

MsG

How long have you got mate? Seriously though, I just hate it when Cyclops says how sorry he is when we lose yet another. He is so apparent in his indifference. Remember he wasn't even going to bother to attend the D Day anniversary in Normandy, until he found out that Obama was going, then he scuttled off out there wearing an erection. The fact that his handling of the 'gan situation and his treatment of our men out there is going to lose his party the next election and him the leadership of New Labour, is little consolation for the monster fcuck up that he has contributed to. I go on record as saying that although I support our Armed Forces fighting out there, in any and every way that I can, I cannot support this particular war, fought in another country, against terrorism, when this same Government has done virtually fcuk all to deal with the terrorists on our own doorstep. Legal red tape and Pc, virtually tie the hands of our soldiers, how the fcuk can we win a war with that sort of shit governing a soldiers every move. Curse this Government for the miserly, mean spirited, double dealing, wretched, gutless bunch of useless twats that they are. I am now going to the NAAFI.

Originally Posted by Stonker

For those who can cope with it, I caught on lunchtime BBC Radio 2 just now, the tail end of a discussion on the Jeremy Vine Show around the question "Are we losing in Afghanistan?".

Before it descended into the usual old bollix from the uninformed, idle, deluded, ignorant and opinionated pondlife on whom the audience ratings depend, there was a valuable contribution from (among others) James Fergusson, author of "A Billion Mullets" - sorry that's actually "A Million Bullets" , an excellent factual book centred around Brit troops fighting in Afg in '06.

You can catch it on the BBC R2 website Listen Again pages for the next 7 days. Scroll forward to the second 30 minute slot of the 2 hour long show.

Maybe I'll post a link later.[i]

As threatened earlier: LINK

Kicks off at 34mins 45 sec (approx)

Originally Posted by Stonker

Kicks off at 34mins 45 sec (approx)

Many thanks Stonker-got it up and ready now.