nothing of the sort, my question was based on ignorance, i just wanted to know if there was a mechanical reason why these things hadn't been done. thanks for your reply.

Moving the crew behind the wheels means either throwing away usable volume or lengthening the wheel base

Bit like the original wmik then?

Perhaps a smarter move would be to deploy vehicles as per current IED threat, not difficult to do just requires that the Operational fleet be kept in theatre in readyness for change, the reason Jackal is in the news alot recently is the fact that pressure plate ieds are sooo this season, front wheels initial contact point directly under driver commander, this has been mentioned in several threads, Rwmik offers more protection in this aspect due to the protection of not only the belly plate but the distance of crew to contact point and engine taking the brunt of the blast.

I believe Jackel suffers from SA80 syndrome in that it may be ally and be cream of the crop but uglier less ally alternatives can do the job (sometimes to a better degree)

By deploying in different vehicles per IED threat also keeps the enemy guessing as to our modus operandi and perhaps puts them onto the backfoot in some small way, I simply mention this way of working purely for the fact that one thing we have in abundance is a wide selection of different vehicles for fairly similar roles, pattern setting and deception are two lessons learnt from NI (though I reluctantly use that as a ref) that we would do well to use more often in theatre

Just my 2pence.

Or is it that commanders are receiving so many new and interesting pieces of kit that they don't know the best methods to employ them?

I think without having all the evidence and information on this case it would be stupid to guess as to how the Jackal was the reason these guys were killed.

I've seen a WMIK take on an anti-tank mine. The WMIK was a write off but all the crew walked away with little more than ringing ears.

There could be more too this than the simple fact that they were in a Jackal.

Originally Posted by Dollsteeth

Moving the crew behind the wheels means either throwing away usable volume or lengthening the wheel base

Bit like the original wmik then?

Perhaps a smarter move would be to deploy vehicles as per current IED threat, not difficult to do just requires that the Operational fleet be kept in theatre in readyness for change, the reason Jackal is in the news alot recently is the fact that pressure plate ieds are sooo this season, front wheels initial contact point directly under driver commander, this has been mentioned in several threads, Rwmik offers more protection in this aspect due to the protection of not only the belly plate but the distance of crew to contact point and engine taking the brunt of the blast.

I believe Jackel suffers from SA80 syndrome in that it may be ally and be cream of the crop but uglier less ally alternatives can do the job (sometimes to a better degree)

By deploying in different vehicles per IED threat also keeps the enemy guessing as to our modus operandi and perhaps puts them onto the backfoot in some small way, I simply mention this way of working purely for the fact that one thing we have in abundance is a wide selection of different vehicles for fairly similar roles, pattern setting and deception are two lessons learnt from NI (though I reluctantly use that as a ref) that we would do well to use more often in theatre

Just my 2pence.

I agree that tactics is the best approach. Use the Jackal in open country where its mobility is valuable and our movements are too unpredictable for mines to be placed effectively. Do not use it to lead a convoy down a predictable route. If necessary use a MRAP type to escort the Jackal out of camp and into open country. Possibly have one vehicle in each group that can protect the driver from a mine, but has no other useful function, and use it as lead vehicle.

So anyone else bought the Jackal or use it then? Because if not it does sound awfully familiar.

Think the Dutch have them

Originally Posted by Schaden

The Jackal looks bloody dangerous quite frankly, I take it no one in MOD procurement ever bothered to read that book about "Taming the Landmine"

Passengers are positioned too close over the wheels, no cover from ied blast and the poor fecker in the back is going to be a 75kg meat missile without being strapped in if they hit anything.

Problem is that decent landmine resistant vehicles don't even look vaguely sexy - this does and it'll kill people doing it.

Oddly enough the US Marines have bought this - but then they did always have common sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casspir

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buffalo_IED.jpg

Forgot to add - it's not 1942 and the LRDG were disbanded ages ago...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buffaloied.jpg

Yep - it can go anywhere that Jackal can And are the marines taking a lot less casualties than us?

Originally Posted by Schaden

So anyone else bought the Jackal or use it then? Because if not it does sound awfully familiar.

Australia, for their special forces, their version is called something else though- Nary.

Originally Posted by Schaden

So anyone else bought the Jackal or use it then? Because if not it does sound awfully familiar.

MV, the first incarnation of jackal was used by UKSF for a few years, I believe US Delta bought it around the same time as we got Jackal.