Ronnie Biggs released from prison to die.

**Monty417** · 12-08-2009, 19:01

[quote="stacker1"]

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

He died 8 years after the incident from an unrelated condition, Leukemia. Even the authorities agreed that his death was not related to the robbery.
How on earth you can say he died early after 8 years had passed dying at the age of 65, which was then probably around the national average.
The fact he never did a stroke of work in that time and claimed sick benefit may have been considered milking it.
He suffered a black eye and some bruising. His condition and injuries were so minor that the police arrested him in handcuffs as they thought he was part of the gang then taken to hospital, still in handcuffs until the police were satisfied to release him.
So tell me, what vision of the events do you have. Not condoning the robbery at all but there are a lot of urban myths around the event, Mills being one of them.

VH

Not sure what the social was like in 1963, but I doubt it anything as generous as it is now. For a bloke who was 57 when he was violently attacked I doubt he was milking anything, people say it was just a bit of bruising and a black eye but that never get said when a picture of a pensioner whos been filled in by a chav and has the same injuries get published. Maybe after people have been smeash over the head themselves the might view differently.

It wasn't worth being on 'the social' in 1963. Apart from the stigma attached to it then, it was very low, the very bare minimum to scrape by with. Then again, relatively, there were not many immigrants, no illegals at all and young girls didn't often have kids, let alone make a career out of it and if they did, the father paid his share, not the taxpayer. Also, abortions were illegal and council houses went to the most needy in a fair manner. Proves something, dunnit.

**johnboyzzz** · 12-08-2009, 19:04

Originally Posted by Whet

Originally Posted by Bravo_Zulu

Originally Posted by Whet

Funny that because I thought that Whet had worked with his illness. I thought that Whet had worked on a building site until he was diagnosed, that he had worked as a computer analyst and IT tech until a car crash put him into hospital for 3 months. And that he had tried to get employment consistently after he came out of hospital. He now gets benefits because his illness is preventing him from an occupation.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good post, Stacker.

Some people have all the luck, don't they Whet? I'd stay inside tonight in case one of those meteors lands on your head ;)

With my luck it'll come through the roof and do me damage.

We wouldn't be that lucky ;)

**stacker1** · 13-08-2009, 13:13

I see the old git well enough to release the filming of his birthday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8198306.stm

So much for staying out of the public eye.

**bakerlite** · 13-08-2009, 14:29

Back in the day some guy managed kill himself whilst at HM's pleasure.
Next morning I saw these words painted on the side of some social housing.
It read "Bobby Who?"
Just a thought,
B

**RABC** · 13-08-2009, 14:37

There is some sort of twisted logic, often quoted, that suggests that because the sentence would not have been as harsh today, then he deserves some leniency. Well that is just crap- the real problem is that todays sentences are a joke !!

No sympathy - he gets better treatment than most (law abiding) people his age do when they get ill .

He was in a hospital anyway, not a prison.

**Monty417** · 13-08-2009, 14:45

Originally Posted by stacker1

I see the old git well enough to release the filming of his birthday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8198306.stm

So much for staying out of the public eye.

The Briggs u turn by Jack Manofstraw, couldn't possibly have anything to do with the possible release of the Locherbie Bomber, could it? The Scottish Govt have said that the release hasn't been decided yet. If it turns out to be true, we'll know Briggs was released purely on political grounds.
Keep this thead open until then.

**VanHelsing** · 13-08-2009, 14:50

Well what's the thoughts with the Lybian terrorist being let out in much the same way as Biggs. However Biggs was not convicted of killing hundreds of innocent people.
Also the Lybian is probably in better health than Biggs right now.

Sentences should be harsh, we are too soft, but they should be consistant, not used as political bargaining tools.
We can set free a terrorist against the wishes of the USA but will still extradite a UK citizen when he should be tried here.

It is the hypocracy of it all that causes the outrage. Biggs is no threat to society, however in the case of a terrorist...seems a bit different.
Biggs was a robber, the terrorist a murderer.

VH

**Monty417** · 13-08-2009, 14:54

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Well what's the thoughts with the Lybian terrorist being let out in much the same way as Biggs. However Biggs was not convicted of killing hundreds of innocent people.
Also the Lybian is probably in better health than Biggs right now.

Sentences should be harsh, we are too soft, but they should be consistant, not used as political bargaining tools.
We can set free a terrorist against the wishes of the USA but will still extradite a UK citizen when he should be tried here.

It is the hypocracy of it all that causes the outrage. Biggs is no threat to society, however in the case of a terrorist...seems a bit different.
Biggs was a robber, the terrorist a murderer.

VH

Would you open a new thread on this VH? I thought about it, but you've asked it.

**stacker1** · 13-08-2009, 15:16

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

It is the hypocracy of it all that causes the outrage. Biggs is no threat to society, however in the case of a terrorist...seems a bit different.
Biggs was a robber, the terrorist a murderer.

VH

So what? he's still a criminal scumbag who made a mockery of the law he should stay in jail along with terrorists and other assorted scumbags.

**VanHelsing** · 13-08-2009, 15:31

True Stacker, I do agree, they should all serve all their time.
But in reality it doesn't seen to work that way.
It was the hypocracy of it all and Whets outlook that brought me into the debate.
I do agree life should mean life, but if the law allows the release of far more dangerous criminals than Biggs, there is no real justification to stop him being released on compassionate grounds if far more dangerous prisoners are already being released early.

VH

**miles_gloriosus** · 13-08-2009, 16:04

Originally Posted by Monty417

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Well what's the thoughts with the Lybian terrorist being let out in much the same way as Biggs. However Biggs was not convicted of killing hundreds of innocent people.
Also the Lybian is probably in better health than Biggs right now.

Sentences should be harsh, we are too soft, but they should be consistant, not used as political bargaining tools.
We can set free a terrorist against the wishes of the USA but will still extradite a UK citizen when he should be tried here.

It is the hypocracy of it all that causes the outrage. Biggs is no threat to society, however in the case of a terrorist...seems a bit different.
Biggs was a robber, the terrorist a murderer.

VH

I think if you check out the thread on the release of the Lockerbie convict, there's rather more sympathy for him than you might expect. Quite a few people, me among them, believe he was the victim of a politically-inspired stitch-up. I also believe his remaining days with terminal cancer will also be a far more awful experience than Biggs's freedom.

More sympathy for him than Biggs? Absolutely.

Would you open a new thread on this VH? I thought about it, but you've asked it.

**Monty417** · 13-08-2009, 16:06

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

True Stacker, I do agree, they should all serve all their time.
But in reality it doesn't seen to work that way.
It was the hypocracy of it all and Whets outlook that brought me into the debate.
I do agree life should mean life, but if the law allows the release of far more dangerous criminals than Biggs, there is no real justification to stop him being released on compassionate grounds if far more dangerous prisoners are already being released early.

VH

This wouldn't be a debate back in the time of Albert Pierrepoint. Murderers were topped and all the rest had to do their time fully as laid down in law. Seemed to work pretty good. Some of these recreational murdering fcukers that have been released today, wouldn't have had the chance to murder again like they have done. And before anyone asks the question, yes indeed I would pull the lever. With gusto.

**Monty417** · 13-08-2009, 16:10

Originally Posted by miles_gloriosus

Originally Posted by Monty417

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Well what's the thoughts with the Lybian terrorist being let out in much the same way as Biggs. However Biggs was not convicted of killing hundreds of innocent people.
Also the Lybian is probably in better health than Biggs right now.

Sentences should be harsh, we are too soft, but they should be consistant, not used as political bargaining tools.
We can set free a terrorist against the wishes of the USA but will still extradite a UK citizen when he should be tried here.

It is the hypocracy of it all that causes the outrage. Biggs is no threat to society, however in the case of a terrorist...seems a bit different.
Biggs was a robber, the terrorist a murderer.

VH

I think if you check out the thread on the release of the Lockerbie convict, there's rather more sympathy for him than you might expect. Quite a few people, me among them, believe he was the victim of a politically-inspired stitch-up. I also believe his remaining days with terminal cancer will also be a far more awful experience than Biggs's freedom.

More sympathy for him than Biggs? Absolutely.

Would you open a new thread on this VH? I thought about it, but you've asked it.

I believe that it's thought that others were involved and that no effort was really made to follow it up and reach a properly concluded investigation.

**VanHelsing** · 13-08-2009, 18:58

So Miles you'll have more sympathy with the terrorist

Remember the terrorist got Life inprisonment, none of the train robber gang were sentenced to life inprisonment.

VH

**montyofalamein** · 30-08-2009, 03:10

Just watched the excellent CH4 doc on the 1981 Biggs kidnap by John Miller and his mates.

What is the real story about Miller?. I know Miller isnt his real name. And I have read that his SAS status is a complete fraud. That he tried out but failed, yet claims SAS status. Also one story I read has him as an Irish Guard, yet hes usually referred to as ex-Scots Guards.

There are also much darker claims of prison time for fraud and/or pornography and claims of sexual offences against women. In short, the guy's a completely dodgy Walter Mitty.

I'd love to hear from people here who are closer to the truth that most.