Useful

**msr** · 13-07-2009, 09:26

With the Taliban resurgent, and with British casualties mounting, and with more illegal opium being grown than ever before, it is time to look again at one obvious solution. Surely we should be pursuing the argument first proposed three years ago by the Senlis council: to see if we can work with Afghan villages and farmers to develop a legitimate medical market for their crops. We have an ageing Western population; we are making infinite advances in fighting disease and in prolonging life. We are therefore going to be in need of ever more painkilling drugs. The people of Afghanistan have shown they can grow those drugs in quantity. Surely we should be helping them to turn those poppies into medicine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...ghanistan.html

BoJo, just four years behind the times: http://www.poppyformedicine.net/

MSR

**jarrod248** · 13-07-2009, 09:46

MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.

**msr** · 13-07-2009, 09:55

Originally Posted by jarrod248

MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.

So what do you propose?

**Bugsy** · 13-07-2009, 10:01

Originally Posted by jarrod248

MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.

It's a brilliant plan! The problem is that nobody's got the bottle to initiate it. An even better plan would be to legalise heroin and use the dough saved on the "war on drugs" to equip the Armed Forces.

Methadone may be comparatively cheap, but it's an absolutely disastrous drug and far inferior to heroin. Just as an example:

Withdrawal time from heroin: 4 - 5 days
Withdrawal time from methadone: up to six weeks.

MsG

**sc_obvious** · 13-07-2009, 10:02

How much would it cost to buy the entire crop ? Buying an entire years crop from the farmers would not cost too much and yet would have a major impact on the amount of Heroin that is available (if the 90% figure is correct). We could even go halfers with the Yanks. It's worth a punt as nothing the Govt have tried in the past has had any resounding success.

It would also have the added bonus of denting the Talibs cash flow (if only for a year). If its a success then do it again the following year. Of course Heroin production in other countries would increase but no doubt it would take time to set up the smuggling infrastructure to get the product to the UK.

**hexysmoker** · 13-07-2009, 10:08

It does sound like a great plan, but I can see a problem with guarding it. We get the farmers to grow something that we can then use, but then the Taliban just jump onto those crops as a means of making money.

They armoured farmers could be assigned guarding duties at least! :D

**jarrod248** · 13-07-2009, 10:10

Originally Posted by Bugsy

Originally Posted by jarrod248

MSR, in theory it's a great plan, the problem is they grow much more than we could use. There has been very targetted work at getting people into drug treatment and who knows maybe less people will be using Heroin. I wonder what might happen to drug treatment services should we have a change of govt.
Methadone is a very cheap drug and if more people are on Methadone and using less Heroin maybe we'll have even bigger supplies and a cheaper product on the streets. It could be then that we get younger and younger addicts due to Heroin being cheaper.

It's a brilliant plan! The problem is that nobody's got the bottle to initiate it. An even better plan would be to legalise heroin and use the dough saved on the "war on drugs" to equip the Armed Forces.

Methadone may be comparatively cheap, but it's an absolutely disastrous drug and far inferior to heroin. Just as an example:

Withdrawal time from heroin: 4 - 5 days
Withdrawal time from methadone: up to six weeks.

MsG

Current thinking is for maintenance based treatment, Methadone is a llong acting drug and so when someone is stabilised on a dose, they rarely have to increase. Heroin is a short acting drug and so doses need increasing often and that is why so much crime is committed by people addicted to it.
Methadone is also used for pain in some circumstances and that is why it was originally developed. I disagree that it's a disatrous drug.

**angular** · 13-07-2009, 10:12

The EU has lots of experience in getting farmers to grow crops that no-one needs, in order to further other aims (e.g. the retention of French or Italian rural lifestyles). As you really only have to persuade the German and English taxpayers that this is a good use of their EU money, it should be achievable.

It wouldn't be the work of a genius to buy the stuff, use what we want and use the rest for landfill, put it in concrete blocks and sink it, or just store it in Hartlepool for all I care.

It's the next two steps in the story that matter. Are we prepared to resource the increase in crime that will come when the price of heroin goes through the roof? And are we prepared to resource the increase in violence in AFG when the Taliban fight back against the removal of their source of income?

**jarrod248** · 13-07-2009, 10:14

Originally Posted by sc_obvious

How much would it cost to buy the entire crop ? Buying an entire years crop from the farmers would not cost too much and yet would have a major impact on the amount of Heroin that is available (if the 90% figure is correct). We could even go halfers with the Yanks. It's worth a punt as nothing the Govt have tried in the past has had any resounding success.

It would also have the added bonus of denting the Talibs cash flow (if only for a year). If its a success then do it again the following year. Of course Heroin production in other countries would increase but no doubt it would take time to set up the smuggling infrastructure to get the product to the UK.

The crop for the year 2000 from Afghanistan was 1670 tonnes it takes 10 tons of morphine to make 1 ton of heroin. I don't have more up to date figures with me at the moment but it does give you an idea of scale.