'More helicopters are not the answer in Afghanistan'

**Yeoman_dai** · 13-07-2009, 09:42

Ah ha, but a Mastiff costs around Â£200 000 each...

Lets see, helicopter wise you could get an R22 for that!

Or, to put it another way, 1/100th of a single Merlin.

All of which is very attractive to HM Treasury, and PM because they can say 'look, we're buying all this impressive kit that the Army needs' whilst actually dodging a very expensive bullet. Bwastards

**tropper66** · 13-07-2009, 09:55

Do what the Canadians did, Hire the Airframes with crew from a former Soviet Republic

**para_medic** · 13-07-2009, 10:01

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

The only Euros with a good number of helos are the Germans. They have shitloads of CH-53's but won't play with the rough boys so they're as much use as tits on a bull.

O_S, nope. The Germans had 12 (twelve) CH-53GS beginning of 2008 and 6 were flying out of Mazar. I am not aware of them reinforcing any of the CH-53G so - they have even less.

**baboon6** · 13-07-2009, 10:10

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by tattybadger

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Helicopters aren't the answer to Afghanistan though they will go a long way in helping us achieve our mission there.

Probably with reduced cas.

For years ptling in S. Armagh was on foot or by heli iot reduce the threat of IEDs - surely that lesson has not been lost on the keepers of the purse string?

Or do they give a fuck?

How many Helcopters were in Ulster?, My sqn had 12 recce Sioux, backed up with 6 Scouts, and 2 sqn of Wessex/ Puma. 30/ 40 airframes. At a push there were also 2 sqn of RN in BK in 1970 that could be called upon
How many are there in Helmond? 8 apache, 8 Chinook and some Lynx 20/30 airframes

In an area , how much larger than Ulster?

And they say they have enough

As far as I know 8 Chinook, 6 Sea King, 8 Apache, 5 Lynx.

**Pit_Bull** · 13-07-2009, 10:10

Originally Posted by ChunkeyKnob

or will we have another debacle like the SF chinooks from a few years ago?

Are they still in the hanger awaiting config. or whatever was holding them back?? Or have they actually been released into service (unlikely I imagine).

**tropper66** · 13-07-2009, 10:19

Originally Posted by baboon6

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by tattybadger

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Helicopters aren't the answer to Afghanistan though they will go a long way in helping us achieve our mission there.

Probably with reduced cas.

For years ptling in S. Armagh was on foot or by heli iot reduce the threat of IEDs - surely that lesson has not been lost on the keepers of the purse string?

Or do they give a fuck?

How many Helcopters were in Ulster?, My sqn had 12 recce Sioux, backed up with 6 Scouts, and 2 sqn of Wessex/ Puma. 30/ 40 airframes. At a push there were also 2 sqn of RN in BK in 1970 that could be called upon
How many are there in Helmond? 8 apache, 8 Chinook and some Lynx 20/30 airframes

In an area , how much larger than Ulster?

And they say they have enough

As far as I know 8 Chinook, 6 Sea King, 8 Apache, 5 Lynx.

So you can reduce that by 1/3 for servicing,ect it's a joke, some of these types are not much cop in Hot and High places, as they wear meant to operate at sea level

**The_Cheat** · 13-07-2009, 10:19

Originally Posted by para_medic

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

The only Euros with a good number of helos are the Germans. They have shitloads of CH-53's but won't play with the rough boys so they're as much use as tits on a bull.

O_S, nope. The Germans had 12 (twelve) CH-53GS beginning of 2008 and 6 were flying out of Mazar. I am not aware of them reinforcing any of the CH-53G so - they have even less.

The wiki / Flight international says that the Germans had 96 as of November 2008.

Can't find the Flight international link though...

T C

Edit to add- They signed a deal to have 26 of their CH-53's "upgraded to perform personnel recovery tasks" at the Paris air show. Linky

Edit again- The German Army wiki page lists 96 CH-53, soon to be augmented with 80 NHI NH90.

**Semper_Flexibilis** · 13-07-2009, 10:22

Originally Posted by para_medic

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

The only Euros with a good number of helos are the Germans. They have shitloads of CH-53's but won't play with the rough boys so they're as much use as tits on a bull.

O_S, nope. The Germans had 12 (twelve) CH-53GS beginning of 2008 and 6 were flying out of Mazar. I am not aware of them reinforcing any of the CH-53G so - they have even less.

The German Army have a total of 82 operational CH-53's in their inventory

65 CH-53G
15 CH-53GS

As per my point, the Germans have the largest fleet of heavy lift helos in the EU.

**baboon6** · 13-07-2009, 10:22

Originally Posted by The_Cheat

Originally Posted by para_medic

Originally Posted by Oil_Slick

The only Euros with a good number of helos are the Germans. They have shitloads of CH-53's but won't play with the rough boys so they're as much use as tits on a bull.

O_S, nope. The Germans had 12 (twelve) CH-53GS beginning of 2008 and 6 were flying out of Mazar. I am not aware of them reinforcing any of the CH-53G so - they have even less.

The wiki / Flight international says that the Germans had 96 as of November 2008.

Can't find the Flight international link though...

T C

You mean 96 in service, mostly in Germany. He means 12 in Afghanistan.

**The_Cheat** · 13-07-2009, 10:35

Originally Posted by baboon6

You mean 96 in service, mostly in Germany. He means 12 in Afghanistan.

I think that's the point. If Germany wants to be a player in NATO then they need to have more than 12.5% of their Airframes involved.

T C

**Fallschirmjager** · 13-07-2009, 10:35

Originally Posted by Schaden

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Hence why I said they will go a long way in helping us achieve our mission there?

Just explain exactly what that mission is please.

To kill and maim as many taliban as possible with the weapons at my disposal.

That's my mission and the only one i'm bothered about.

**81cufc** · 13-07-2009, 10:38

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Originally Posted by Schaden

Just explain exactly what that mission is please.

To kill and maim as many taliban as possible with the weapons at my disposal.

That's my mission and the only one i'm bothered about.

Yeah Man! You should be in charge!

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Helicopters aren't the answer to Afghanistan though they will go a long way in helping us achieve our mission there.

Agree!

Originally Posted by tattybadger

Or do they give a fuck?

I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head here!

**whitecity** · 13-07-2009, 10:49

Originally Posted by The_Cheat

Originally Posted by baboon6

You mean 96 in service, mostly in Germany. He means 12 in Afghanistan.

I think that's the point. If Germany wants to be a player in NATO then they need to have more than 12.5% of their Airframes involved.

T C

Why?

**Travis** · 13-07-2009, 11:09

Originally Posted by tattybadger

. . . . Or do they give a fuck?

No.

**Semper_Flexibilis** · 13-07-2009, 11:11

Originally Posted by whitecity

Originally Posted by The_Cheat

Originally Posted by baboon6

You mean 96 in service, mostly in Germany. He means 12 in Afghanistan.

I think that's the point. If Germany wants to be a player in NATO then they need to have more than 12.5% of their Airframes involved.

T C

Why?

Because the One Eyed Cvnt said that our gallant allies were providing us with lift in Afghanistan, QED, no need for more UK Helos.

UK operational heavy lift helos: 30 Chinooks - 8 deployed
Geerman operational heavy lift helos - 82 CH-53's - 6 deployed but they only seem to fly if the natives are not being grumpy.