Thread: BNP Win Their First EU Seat

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

If the army is so biased towards white people Stacker1 (although I'm shocked that it's changed this much, since I left in October 2005), why don't you leave if you find it so distressing?

What are you saying here?
That you don't believe him or it serves him right?
He is only stating what is happening at his unit, it may not be happening all over the army, unless you were at the same unit how can you say it has changed so much since 2005?Attitudes like yours are helping the BNP, when are you going to see that?

I'm not saying I don't believe Stacker, nor am I saying it serves him right. It seems that he is laying the blame with the wrong people - if the management make a decision, such as it is ok for somebody to pray as according to their faith, in what way is it logical to blame the individual?

Although my troop had people from all over the Commonwealth and I can't say I witnessed/heard of any of them ever trying to play the race card.

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

If the army is so biased towards white people Stacker1 (although I'm shocked that it's changed this much, since I left in October 2005), why don't you leave if you find it so distressing?

What are you saying here?
That you don't believe him or it serves him right?
He is only stating what is happening at his unit, it may not be happening all over the army, unless you were at the same unit how can you say it has changed so much since 2005?Attitudes like yours are helping the BNP, when are you going to see that?

I'm not saying I don't believe Stacker, nor am I saying it serves him right. It seems that he is laying the blame with the wrong people - if the management make a decision, such as it is ok for somebody to pray as according to their faith, in what way is it logical to blame the individual?

Although my troop had people from all over the Commonwealth and I can't say I witnessed/heard of any of them ever trying to play the race card.

He is not blaming the individual, he has stated this on many an occasion, do you read what is not there or is it selective reading?

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

If the army is so biased towards white people Stacker1 (although I'm shocked that it's changed this much, since I left in October 2005), why don't you leave if you find it so distressing?

What are you saying here?
That you don't believe him or it serves him right?
He is only stating what is happening at his unit, it may not be happening all over the army, unless you were at the same unit how can you say it has changed so much since 2005?Attitudes like yours are helping the BNP, when are you going to see that?

I'm not saying I don't believe Stacker, nor am I saying it serves him right. It seems that he is laying the blame with the wrong people - if the management make a decision, such as it is ok for somebody to pray as according to their faith, in what way is it logical to blame the individual?

Although my troop had people from all over the Commonwealth and I can't say I witnessed/heard of any of them ever trying to play the race card.

He is not blaming the individual, he has stated this on many an occasion, do you read what is not there or is it selective reading?

Ok, so why do the majority of his posts and problems seem to revolve around Muslims, African Soldiers etc - that suggests to methat he does have a problem with ethnicity. Maybe you have difficulty in assimilating information and facts, unless they are explicitly stated?

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

If the army is so biased towards white people Stacker1 (although I'm shocked that it's changed this much, since I left in October 2005), why don't you leave if you find it so distressing?

What are you saying here?
That you don't believe him or it serves him right?
He is only stating what is happening at his unit, it may not be happening all over the army, unless you were at the same unit how can you say it has changed so much since 2005?Attitudes like yours are helping the BNP, when are you going to see that?

I'm not saying I don't believe Stacker, nor am I saying it serves him right. It seems that he is laying the blame with the wrong people - if the management make a decision, such as it is ok for somebody to pray as according to their faith, in what way is it logical to blame the individual?

Although my troop had people from all over the Commonwealth and I can't say I witnessed/heard of any of them ever trying to play the race card.

He is not blaming the individual, he has stated this on many an occasion, do you read what is not there or is it selective reading?

Ok, so why do the majority of his posts and problems seem to revolve around Muslims, African Soldiers etc - that suggests to methat he does have a problem with ethnicity. Maybe you have difficulty in assimilating information and facts, unless they are explicitly stated?

That suggests to me that his management are not managing properly or the directives are wrong or some other some such reason, not that stacker has a problem with ethnicity. He has stated, again, on many an occasion that it is the different way that people are treated that he has a problem with.
I do not want to steal his thunder at all so will not argue his case any more, he can do it for himself.
I have a problem if people are treated differently as we all should, people are afraid of being called racist or bigots or whatever and they have gone too far to the other side, its frankly ridiculous.

Positive discrimination has done more to hinder race relations than anything else I can think of.

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

Well, it happens and I've personally witnessed it.

I've worked with Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and probably others that I've never even heard of, but I've never seen them wander off whenever they feel like it any more than I've seen white soldiers do it. If they're not on something operationally important and want an hour off for prayers, why not let them? It's not like the white/British/Christian (however you want to describe them) lads don't look for any excuse they can find to get back to their rooms instead of sweeping the hangar again.

They were doing doing something, but even if they are not why just knock of the Muslims to go a prayer why not the non muslim lads to go and do what they want?
You are right, all soldiers try to slope of, its something soldiers excel in, but I don't expect the army to support them.

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

You try telling Pte Bloggs that he can't go on Army Dog Fondling because he's on exercise that week and see how long it is until you get a phone call from General Cholmley-Warner, head of Army Dog Fondling, telling you that Pte Bloggs will be going on his week of canine touching and you can wind your neck in.

Oh right so if a Imam (in the army) phoned up and said a Muslim is having a week off because he said so, it wouldn't be a problem?
If you get a week of for dog fondling, Bloggs, so long as its for the army then its acceptable (the week off not the dog fondling) If you just meke up what part of a religion that suits you it isnt.

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

Ok, so why do the majority of his posts and problems seem to revolve around Muslims, African Soldiers etc - that suggests to methat he does have a problem with ethnicity. Maybe you have difficulty in assimilating information and facts, unless they are explicitly stated?

Its only a problem because they get away with using their minorities status to get out of something and are fully protected by the army.

Did I state when I joined up I didn't see any racism? (several times) so what has changed?
Did I state that white soldiers can be bell ends as well? (several times) so why are they treated differently than the minorities?
To right it will be about Muslims if they are the ones dodging work and using their religion as an excuse, To right it will be about the Africans who seem to think they can pull the race card when it suits them.

Originally Posted by stacker1

Well that not my experience in the army now. (it was when I first joined up)


It wasn't me, it was several other soldiers and yes they did ask and they were told it was because they were British they were not entitled (RAO words). What a great way to show how intergrated we are.

I would have taken that up the CoC especially as it was causing ill-feeling towards the recipients of the free stamps. To be legal the Army can't, by law do it on an exclusive basis, it has to be done on an all those with family abroad basis.

He did indeed get away with things because people were wary about approching him and him playing the race card again. He wasn't alone in doing it. It wasn't so much that he was doing it, t was more the fact the army refused to do anything about it.

If you were in charge of him and you let him get away with it that is up to you. Perhaps you should ask the Ed wallahs for a man management course?

I don't see Christians getting time of work to go to church in my unit(not that they should anyway) in my unit. NO-ONE should be treated differently, but Muslims (and other minorities do) certainly do. It didn't matter that Christians stagged on over Christmas (quite right as well) but it did matter that the Muslims were working over their religious period (Nev or eve or something like that).I would have got the lads together and suggested that the non-Christians cover Christmas and the Christians cover Eed-al-Fitr if there was any reluctance then I would try to establish the basis for that reluctance.
Think about this two toms are both working one non muslim and and a muslim, the Muslim disaapears 3 time during the working day to pray while the other soldier continues, Is this fair? Why can't the other soldier get a break at the same time? When I asked this as I thought the other soldier needed a rest I was told because hes not a Muslim.
Then people wonder why that soldier gets the hump with Muslims.

Assuming both soldiers were on routine tasks I would have told the non-Muslims to take a fag break or get a brew on, if there was important work to be done I'd stagger it, I wouldn't ask anyone's permission, that's what my rank is for.

Originally Posted by Reserver

Jagman writes a lot of good sense and has my full support in what he says. The fact is that no country can absorb 440 million people overnight which is what being in the EU means as they all have the legal right to live here. This is nothing to do with race, religion or colour. It is simply a matter of common sense and numbers of people that can be assimilated within the community.
Furthermore, it does not appear to be recognised that the EU is going to take over immigration policy and the EU will decide how many asylum seekers, foreign immigrants etc will have to come to the UK. I firmly believe that genuinine asylum seekers should be given a new start in the UK, but the rules say that they should be offered asylum in the first safe country they enter. The EU will then have he power to send as many as they want to the UK. As Jagman rightly points out, the election of two BNP members to the European parliament should concentrate the minds of our politicians into re-assessing immigration policy. Unfortunately they may be unable to do a thing about it as the EU will decide everthing in any event.
It is another fact that by allowing 460 million Europeans to live in the UK we are positively discriminating against our Commonwealth cousins from being allowed to live here in favour of Europeans to whom we owe nothing and who owe us (the USA and the Commonwealth as well) everything.
The BNP racial policy is abhorrent. During the last war the Indian Army of 1 Million volunteers was (I believe) the largest volunteer army ever raised. We owe them, not Romanians, Bulgarians Moldavians etc., etc.

I fail to see your point on the last issue. Yes, over a million Indians did fight for the Commonwealth in WWII but does mean that every single Indian national should be allowed into Britain?

As for your point about European immigration, migrants from the EU only amount to about one fifth of the immigration total, the rest are from the third world.

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by Barrack Room Lawyer

Im sorry but ref your green MIT, I had a quick google on how much the UK pays the EU and from the FCO website 2007-2008 it was around 4.7 billion, are you saying we actually make money from the EU by taking in asylum seekers? If so can you show me some figures please. I cannot see how them buying clothes from primark and helping top up lawyers early retirement funds helps the UK economy.

Not make money but the amount we spend on asylum seekers is sponsored by the EU, we don't bear the full brunt of the costs. Anyone who buys anything in this country helps the economy.

Sorry forgot link:

Promised land? No, promised linky.

Thanks for that, its more of a policy document with no figures on though isnt it.

I had a quick look and came up with this from a MEP:
How much does it cost?

It has been estimated that in 2002 the government spent about £1.7bn on the asylum system, including processing claims and direct support for asylum seekers (BBC, 2003). This amounts to well under 0.5% of total managed public expenditure of approximately £400bn. Set against this expenditure, it must be noted that the Home Office has estimated that people born outside the UK, including refugees and asylum seekers, put 10% more into the Treasury coffers than they take out (report by the Refugee Council, 2002).
Im a MEP link I am

Nothing about getting the money back from the EU, but intersting to know they put more in thn taking out.
So hat tip to you MIT! :D

Originally Posted by Markintime

I would have taken that up the CoC especially as it was causing ill-feeling towards the recipients of the free stamps. To be legal the Army can't, by law do it on an exclusive basis, it has to be done on an all those with family abroad basis.

The lads did try to take it up it with the C of C being nearly 50p to send letter abroad, they were clearly told tough. I didn't see the equal ops officer leap into action.

Originally Posted by Markintime

If you were in charge of him and you let him get away with it that is up to you. Perhaps you should ask the Ed wallahs for a man management course?

I don't let anyone get away with anything. His senior ranks certainly did, based solely on the fact that if he cried racism(for the 100th time) they spend all day writing out statements . Don't think for a moment the army is serious about doing anything about people making spurious racism claims.

Originally Posted by Markintime

I would have got the lads together and suggested that the non-Christians cover Christmas and the Christians cover Eed-al-Fitr if there was any reluctance then I would try to establish the basis for that reluctance.

How about tough luck you are in the army if you can find a mate to cover fair enough other than that stag on. (that goes for all religions).
Do the Pakistan army stop working over Eid-al-Fitr? So why do the British army seem quite so keen to let Muslims of work?

Originally Posted by Markintime

Assuming both soldiers were on routine tasks I would have told the non-Muslims to take a fag break or get a brew on, if there was important work to be done I'd stagger it, I wouldn't ask anyone's permission, that's what my rank is for.

Exactly my feelings except about the rank part, unfortunly if someone wants to get knocked of for an extra break and its not for a minority reason he isn't going on than break. Being told you have to stay why someone else slopes off for relegious reasons is not the best way of keeping your squaddies happy.

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by amazing__lobster

If the army is so biased towards white people Stacker1 (although I'm shocked that it's changed this much, since I left in October 2005), why don't you leave if you find it so distressing?

What are you saying here?
That you don't believe him or it serves him right?
He is only stating what is happening at his unit, it may not be happening all over the army, unless you were at the same unit how can you say it has changed so much since 2005?
Attitudes like yours are helping the BNP, when are you going to see that?

Funnily enough he hasn't stated one thing that has directly affected him, it is all about stuff happening to other lads and yet I don't see them on here backing him up. Every argument that Stacker puts forward seems to be about race and he talks more about 'they' than he does the Army hierarchy. How does Stacker's Army experience lead him to believe that we should withdraw from the EU. Most of his problems appear to be resentment of other soldiers possibly getting more out of soldiering than he is.
Lobster just said he didn't find massive problems when he was in and was amazed the Army had changed so much in such a short time, surely he has the right to his experience or memory? It's attitudes like yours that makes so many people vote Labour. (the last para definitely tongue in cheek - I would vote for BNP before I'd vote Labour and I do know I'll definitely never vote Labour again.)

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Anyway MIT, I have stated why I voted BNP and if nothing changes I will be voting BNP at the GE too, but to say that the BNP will not withdraw from the EU despite what they say, how do you come to this, it seems you are taking some of what they say at face value (all the bad bits) and then saying that some of the other bits they wont do, you cant have it both ways.

It is entirely my right to believe which bits of their manifesto I want to. Just as it's your right to believe which parts of the Conservative/Labour/Lib Dem manifestos you believe.

Methinks stacker1, your band of merry men and gals is not so merry nor harmonious. It seems you have a lot of intolerance and ignorance bubbling under the surface in your unit.

Still, I'm sure a solid, tolerant chap like you will keep calm and not rock the boat by spreading deliberate mischief and causing unnecessary trouble, will you?

Originally Posted by Markintime

Funnily enough he hasn't stated one thing that has directly affected him, it is all about stuff happening to other lads and yet I don't see them on here backing him up. Every argument that Stacker puts forward seems to be about race and he talks more about 'they' than he does the Army hierarchy. How does Stacker's Army experience lead him to believe that we should withdraw from the EU. Most of his problems appear to be resentment of other soldiers possibly getting more out of soldiering than he is.
Lobster just said he didn't find massive problems when he was in and was amazed the Army had changed so much in such a short time, surely he has the right to his experience or memory? It's attitudes like yours that makes so many people vote Labour. (the last para definitely tongue in cheek - I would vote for BNP before I'd vote Labour and I do know I'll definitely never vote Labour again.)

Funnily enough Ive posted before exactly what regiments this happens in and funnily enough no-one out of 20000 loggies said I was wrong.
Funnily enough I've posted before and challenged PTP to find out about an ethnic officer, Funnily enough hes hasn't came back and said I'm lying.
Funnily enough I said there has been a rise in BNP support in the armed forces funnily enough the BNP are getting more popular (in civvie street) every year.
I tend to stand up to little pricks who play the race card although sometimes I'm overuled by people who don't have any backbone then move people around to try to smooth things over.
The EU has got little to do with why young squaddies are attracted to the BNP, I just happen to think their policy on europe isn't that bad.

Stacker1, how long have you been in the Army? I ask this because you say that when you joined things were a lot different and I just wondered what the time frame was.