Thread: BNP Win Their First EU Seat

Originally Posted by AFA06

Originally Posted by Markintime

and I promise not to pre-judge

Lol :D :o :D

Hardly worthy of you AFA and quite childish given my last couple of posts.

Originally Posted by stacker1

The african soldier said no one (black or white) should use the word nigger.
The Jamaican said it was okay. Is it racist or not? Oh and there was someone from Sierra Leone who said it was just a black greeting. Isn't it marvellous when black soldiers can't agree what is racist or not? Should I charge black soldiers for using the word nigger, will I look a plum in front of the CO when I say that black soldier was being racist to errr black soldiers?

So, three different people can't come to an agreement on a word. Nothing new in that. But, for some reason, you seem to attach some great importance that they should.

You also seem to have lost all sense of commonsense in your decision making process. Does this happen all the time, or only when you are discussing matters or race?

Originally Posted by stacker1

What am I avoiding with the phrase African soldier? I don't know what country he was from I do know he called himself African.

Not all African soldiers are black. It is only in this post that you finally state he was/is black.

Originally Posted by stacker1

Originally Posted by whitecity

I didn't say you were a racist or a fascist. I'm asking you how you would feel if your collegues referred to you on a regular basis, to your face, as the racist or the fascist.

If I descibe my self as a racist (barring Markintime quote) then people can call me a racist. I would go around saying you can call me a racist today but you over there can't and if you do I'll report you.

So, for the second time you have contrived to NOT answer the question posed and tried to waffle away with something else. Let me try to be even more clear.

I didn't say you were a racist or a fascist. I'm asking you how you would feel if your collegues referred to you on a regular basis, to your face and against your will (ie you have NOT described yourself as racist or fascist), as the racist or the fascist.

And finally, thank you for your answer to my miltiple-guess question about calling a white collegue a chav scum. Here's a slight variation on the same theme:

You have a really craap day at work, mainly due to one of your black collegues giving you real grief. That night, in a pub off barracks, you bump into the same collegue and after a few beers decide to have words with him. During the conversation you call him nigger and he reacts by giving you a good kicking. Do you:
a) accept your punishment for being an insulting and offensive priick, or
b) refuse your punishment and report him to the police or the CofC for assault, or
c) refuse your punishment and try to raise support amongst your friends to give him a kicking later because you can't handle him alone.

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

Originally Posted by AFA06

Stacker1 - you need to chill mate, no-one will listen to you - they know better, go open another beer.......

What he said.

They know better stacker.

They know exactly why I voted BNP this time around.

I would engage them on here and discuss it but it would get bogged down with the racist chants, don't waste your time mate. I was even willing to discuss why I did not vote UKIP on another thread, but guess where that one went...

I for one would love to hear what attracted you to the BNP and how you reconciled that with the main stated aims of BNP. Please feel free to tell me and I promise not to pre-judge and will endeavour to debate your points with you at face value.

Ok.

All three main parties were out of the equation I suppose we can agree on that? Well maybe not actually, you see the reason I say all main parties are out of the equation is nothing to do with the expenses bollox, it is more to do with the EU and immigration. I only see one party that will seriously engage on the points above, none of the other parties have the cajones to even talk about it (apart from stating this and that bollox, i.e. we will be putting in place guidelines to....blah...blah....blah.).

Thank you for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated. I think most of the points you have made I covered in my reply to AFA. I agree that we need to curb wholesale immigration but on an individual basis. I also feel that hiring and firing ought to be carried out at the factory door, as it were. In other words, if you want a job at Killingholme you have to make your way there for the interview and take your chances with everyone else. That having been said, one of my sons worked for a sign making company and he went all over the UK and Europe erecting signs etc. Shopfitting firms do the same. They tender for a European contract and if they get it then all well and good. All we are seeing in this country is other European firms who have won such contracts doing the same as us. It isn't always won on price either there are such things as quality of work, ability to meet a deadline and availability of local contractors. So, in essence if it is to join a workforce then they should move to the area first then apply but if it's contracts then it's swings and roundabouts and we gain a lot from European contracts.
The way I see it is that by voting for the BNP it sends a message to politicians that people are sick and tired of the issues above, no matter how many vote UKIP, they will just ignore it as they know they will come crawling back come the GE. I would however never vote UKIP as soon as they trotted out the Spanish/Brazilian women who is PRO EU, how does that work

I am sure that the main parties are examining their policies to try and recoup the votes lost to UKIP. Publicly they may talk about protest votes but beneath the surface they will be examining their policies. Equally the cries of racist will be covering frantic activity and examination of policy, they can't afford not to, especially where one key aspect of BNP policy is within their more traditional stance.

I know that the BNP will never,ever get in power, anyone who thinks otherwise is either stupid/fooling themselves/just saying it to divert people from voting for them (telling lies).

So in conclusion, I voted BNP as a protest vote, I would never like to see the BNP running the country (will never happen), but think that my vote has had some affect on the running of my country as now people are talking about engaging these people/me (aside from those who call them/me racist and then go back to throwing eggs and beating people with banners)

I realise that the BNP mention race/colour in their manifesto etc. but also realise that they will never be in a position to act on this manifesto (similar to the limp dems btw), if, and as I say above this could never happen but lets be hypothetical here, they were getting even close to running parliament, I, and I would like to think everyone similar to me who realises what is happening will then switch votes, I believe it is called tactical voting.

I accept what you're saying here but find it somewhat naive and dangerous to say the least. You may vote BNP in an election confident that they wont get in power but when the results are announced they have polled enough votes to hold the balance of power, in other words no other party holds an overall majority and BNP hold the balance, the parties will have to either form a coalition or go back to the country in the hopes of a clear mandate.

Thoughts?

Edit: Oh yes and positive discrimination, I hate the whole idea of discrimination, don't you MIT?

Yes, I do and I feel that positive discrimination is counter-productive. Labour's policy on women is an example. You're not getting the best candidate for the job you're getting the best female. If she really is the best then let her stand in a level playing field. I also look at some of the very senior MPS Officers and wonder how they ever got to where they are. However I also aware that sometimes what people see as positive discrimination isn't. They may turn to a Bangladeshi Community Bus and say that is positive discrimination but ignore the fact that it is only one of many community buses awarded to all sorts of groups. Stacker1 goes on about Commonwealth soldiers getting more leave and says this is an example of racial bias, how can it be when there are white Commonwealth soldiers who get exactly the same leave?
Thanks once again for replying, I do appreciate it. As I said, we aren't so far apart but i could never bring myself to vote for a party based on discrimination (which we both agree we hate).

Originally Posted by stacker1

Originally Posted by Markintime

Although you say you're not a racist you have spent a long time defending racist policies and much of what you say shows an underlying resentment of certain racial groups. You certainly don't come across as particularly magnanimous towards non white soldiers.

Which racist policies? That we should pull out of the EU? That immigration should be controlled? No wonder the man parties shy away from the issues if they get called racist for mentioning them. Again I'm sure I said white soldiers can act like **** as well as there not being any problems with ethnic soldiers when I first joined up. (although that does doesn't fit you discription of me so best ignore it eh?)So, for clarification, you do have problems with them now?

Originally Posted by Markintime

I used to knock Scottish and Geordie members of my section off early if they were going home on leave as they had the furthest to go. I never heard anyone else from my section complain about having to cover for them for an extra afternoon, because they could see the logic of what I was doing. You complain about 'Commonwealth' soldiers getting a bit of extra leave. I assume that they were given the extra leave as an incentive to join at a time when the Army was desperate to fill numbers, it is part of their contract. Personally I always felt that the 6 weeks leave a year that we got was perfectly adequate and would not have been jealous of someone else getting more because of his circumstances being different to mine. Please also remember that the extra leave is not a racial thing, it applies equally to white Commonwealth soldiers.

If an English bloke live in Scotland would you knock him of as well? I think you would therfore its based on distance and nothing else. I think we are becoming to focused on the leave thing, its one of many things, I did say that if a British soldiers family is abroad he is entitled to nothing extra, just the same when we use to go on tour and commonewealth soldiers used to get stamps so they could write home but British soldiers whos family lived abroad had to pay for it, Im pretty sure if I said there is a 10% pay rise for British soldiers and nothing for those in the commonwealth it would be made into a race thing pretty sharpish.
I don't know about the stamp thing, when I was serving the Gurkhas were given free housewives, boot kit and civilian clothing, they were also paid less, I don't think I ever heard anyone complain. Perhaps the stamps and other benefits were there to entice them to join and if you had been in Grenada or Fiji when the recruiters were there you could have got the same privilages, as I said, there are white as well as black Commonwealth members or did you not realise that?

Originally Posted by Markintime

I think you really ought to do a bit of soul-searching and examine how you feel about things. As I say, the overwhelming impression you give in this thread is that you have a lot of racial prejudice pent up within you. There is an awful lot of racial prejudice around in this world, I recognise that and I also recognise that it is not just the white who show prejudice. I don't like racial (or any other) prejudice and as long as it is kept in check I am not on a crusade.

All I say is treat people equally but its not like that is it? In a minority? well don't worry that means you are special and we treat you differently than everyone else, played the race card at least once in your career (and been found to be wrong)? Dont worry we will shy away from you for the rest of your career so you don't do the same you us. Can't be arsed issuing coffins for British soldiers killed on Ops? Just say you are a Rastafarian and no-one will make you.

In my time in the Army I placed people on orders if they had broken the rules, everyone who knew me knew there was no racial bias in my make up and accepted that they were placed on orders for doing something wrong. I also once gaoled an full screw for calling to a black soldier "Come here Sambo you lazy Coon". He was dealt with on orders and given a fine. If I had heard a black soldier shout out the same to another black soldier I would have done the same and those who know me will back me up on that. I don't really understand your remark about a Rastafarian but I would have asked him to show me where it stated in the Harambe Bible or the Kebra Negast where he draws his authority from, or if I knew the guy and knew he was a bit of a dosser and liable to be bullshitting I might just say 'tough, get on with it' and argue the consequences afterwards. Rastafarians (I take it this one was not white) are just as able to bullshit as anyone else, treat everyone the same for the right reasons and you don't usually have any problems.

Originally Posted by Markintime

Originally Posted by Markintime

Thank you for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated. I think most of the points you have made I covered in my reply to AFA. I agree that we need to curb wholesale immigration but on an individual basis. I also feel that hiring and firing ought to be carried out at the factory door, as it were. In other words, if you want a job at Killingholme you have to make your way there for the interview and take your chances with everyone else. That having been said, one of my sons worked for a sign making company and he went all over the UK and Europe erecting signs etc. Shopfitting firms do the same. They tender for a European contract and if they get it then all well and good. All we are seeing in this country is other European firms who have won such contracts doing the same as us. It isn't always won on price either there are such things as quality of work, ability to meet a deadline and availability of local contractors. So, in essence if it is to join a workforce then they should move to the area first then apply but if it's contracts then it's swings and roundabouts and we gain a lot from European contracts.
I think we may be further apart than you think, I want out of the EU, if they want us in an EEC then we can address that if it comes up. The whole immigration issue stems from the EU, well there is a bit further afield as well but this needs addressing differently.


I am sure that the main parties are examining their policies to try and recoup the votes lost to UKIP. Publicly they may talk about protest votes but beneath the surface they will be examining their policies. Equally the cries of racist will be covering frantic activity and examination of policy, they can't afford not to, especially where one key aspect of BNP policy is within their more traditional stance.
As I said before, I don't think they will be worrying too much about UKIP, they know the voters will come back come a GE, as has been said by a fair few on these boards incidentally.


I accept what you're saying here but find it somewhat naive and dangerous to say the least. You may vote BNP in an election confident that they wont get in power but when the results are announced they have polled enough votes to hold the balance of power, in other words no other party holds an overall majority and BNP hold the balance, the parties will have to either form a coalition or go back to the country in the hopes of a clear mandate.
Do you seriously believe that the BNP have any chance whatsoever of getting more than 1 or 2 at the most MP's? I know how much the BNP are vilified everywhere, it is not going to happen, I would be VERY surprised if they got one, and there is no way that any party would "do a deal" with them, they would rather go with the monster raving loonies (probably no change actually they could all probably join this anyway).

Thoughts?

Edit: Oh yes and positive discrimination, I hate the whole idea of discrimination, don't you MIT?

Yes, I do and I feel that positive discrimination is counter-productive. Labour's policy on women is an example. You're not getting the best candidate for the job you're getting the best female. If she really is the best then let her stand in a level playing field. I also look at some of the very senior MPS Officers and wonder how they ever got to where they are. However I also aware that sometimes what people see as positive discrimination isn't. They may turn to a Bangladeshi Community Bus and say that is positive discrimination but ignore the fact that it is only one of many community buses awarded to all sorts of groups. Stacker1 goes on about Commonwealth soldiers getting more leave and says this is an example of racial bias, how can it be when there are white Commonwealth soldiers who get exactly the same leave?
Thanks once again for replying, I do appreciate it. As I said, we aren't so far apart but i could never bring myself to vote for a party based on discrimination (which we both agree we hate).

Yes but the Banladeshi community may get a bus and so may a few other minorities but if it is funded by the taxpayers then EVERY community should get their fair share of the pot, or do you only get it if, what?

Originally Posted by All_I_Want

[
I think we may be further apart than you think, I want out of the EU, if they want us in an EEC then we can address that if it comes up. The whole immigration issue stems from the EU, well there is a bit further afield as well but this needs addressing differently.

I have a great deal of issues about the intrusiveness of the EU but I don't think that the BNP will withdraw from Europe despite what they say. I'm not even sure it's possible to withdraw now.

As I said before, I don't think they will be worrying too much about UKIP, they know the voters will come back come a GE, as has been said by a fair few on these boards incidentally.


How can anyone be certain of that, there appears to be a lot of widespread disaffection with the main parties and even if they do come back which party will they support, it may not be Labour so Labour have to worry about that and equally the other two parties.

Do you seriously believe that the BNP have any chance whatsoever of getting more than 1 or 2 at the most MP's? I know how much the BNP are vilified everywhere, it is not going to happen, I would be VERY surprised if they got one, and there is no way that any party would "do a deal" with them, they would rather go with the monster raving loonies (probably no change actually they could all probably join this anyway).
BNP membership is growing if it continues to grow and if they to bury deeper their more extreme policies then it may well continue to grow. There appears to be a growth in extreme nationalist parties all over the EU so nothing is guaranteed, especially if the current depression continues longer than foreseen.

Yes but the Banladeshi community may get a bus and so may a few other minorities but if it is funded by the taxpayers then EVERY community should get their fair share of the pot, or do you only get it if, what?

As I pointed out most communities do get their fair share. Pensioners get buses and bus passes, so do the disabled and the mentally ill, youth groups and religious groups get them as well but a lot of people seem to ignore that and just concentrate on the Bangladeshi one.

Originally Posted by whitecity

So, three different people can't come to an agreement on a word. Nothing new in that. But, for some reason, you seem to attach some great importance that they should.

You also seem to have lost all sense of commonsense in your decision making process. Does this happen all the time, or only when you are discussing matters or race?

I attach importance to it because depending on who in the audience the officers giving the lecture change their stance on what is racist and what isn't. Its okay for blacks to greet each other as whats up ma nigga but if a white person does the same his is an out and out racist and will be charged. Equal or not?

Originally Posted by whitecity

Not all African soldiers are black. It is only in this post that you finally state he was/is black. .

Yes I meant he was black.

Originally Posted by whitecity

So, for the second time you have contrived to NOT answer the question posed and tried to waffle away with something else. Let me try to be even more clear.

I didn't say you were a racist or a fascist. I'm asking you how you would feel if your collegues referred to you on a regular basis, to your face and against your will (ie you have NOT described yourself as racist or fascist), as the racist or the fascist..

I don't know is the honest answer, If someone called me names the very least they would get back is me calling them names, I suppose I would be bother me if it was in my SJAR.

Originally Posted by whitecity

And finally, thank you for your answer to my miltiple-guess question about calling a white collegue a chav scum. Here's a slight variation on the same theme:

You have a really craap day at work, mainly due to one of your black collegues giving you real grief. That night, in a pub off barracks, you bump into the same collegue and after a few beers decide to have words with him. During the conversation you call him nigger and he reacts by giving you a good kicking. Do you:
a) accept your punishment for being an insulting and offensive priick, or
b) refuse your punishment and report him to the police or the CofC for assault, or
c) refuse your punishment and try to raise support amongst your friends to give him a kicking later because you can't handle him alone.

A. same as the white guy why what difference does that make?

Originally Posted by Markintime

?)So, for clarification, you do have problems with them now?

More a problem with the way people class them as special because they are a minority. And shy away from treating them the same because they don't want to be called racist.

Originally Posted by Markintime

I don't know about the stamp thing, when I was serving the Gurkhas were given free housewives, boot kit and civilian clothing, they were also paid less, I don't think I ever heard anyone complain. Perhaps the stamps and other benefits were there to entice them to join and if you had been in Grenada or Fiji when the recruiters were there you could have got the same privilages, as I said, there are white as well as black Commonwealth members or did you not realise that?

The stamp thing was an idea from the regiment paid for by regtimental subs (Which everyone paid into) nothing to do with enticing people to join.
Just another look what we are doing for minorites aren't we great. What harm would it have done to let British soldiers have the stamps (that they helped pay for) if they had family abroad? None what so ever but its easy to tell them they are getting nothing.

Originally Posted by Markintime

In my time in the Army I placed people on orders if they had broken the rules, everyone who knew me knew there was no racial bias in my make up and accepted that they were placed on orders for doing something wrong. I also once gaoled an full screw for calling to a black soldier "Come here Sambo you lazy Coon". He was dealt with on orders and given a fine. If I had heard a black soldier shout out the same to another black soldier I would have done the same and those who know me will back me up on that. I don't really understand your remark about a Rastafarian but I would have asked him to show me where it stated in the Harambe Bible or the Kebra Negast where he draws his authority from, or if I knew the guy and knew he was a bit of a dosser and liable to be bullshitting I might just say 'tough, get on with it' and argue the consequences afterwards. Rastafarians (I take it this one was not white) are just as able to bullshit as anyone else, treat everyone the same for the right reasons and you don't usually have any problems.

Yeah well in my time in the army I can assure you it doesn't happen that way.
I can give a good example of a little tit (black) straight out of training who was making allegations all the time, He accused a black full screw of picking on him for not giving him a sweet, he was quickly told to jog on. He accused the sqn of being racist for making him deploy to Aghanistan in green kit (despite being on the plane with white soldiers in green kit) he was taken out of work for an hour and politely explained to that there was no racism in the sqn, instead grow up you little throbber. He said a sgt was racist due to him given him work as he was black (despite most of the toms being black and someone had to do the work) It was statement time about 10 people had the afternoon off writing statement s to clarify the matter. The little prick always played the race card, the army always let him.
As to our rasta friend apparently rastas are not allowed in the army (their rules not ours) doesn't stop the ones who are in dictating what rules they want to obey, like the Muslims who want time to pray (usually when there is work on) but are down the bar every night. It doesn't stop the army from treating them differently either.

I've been away all week so havn't read the entire thread as yet, however I believe the BNP winning a couple of seats in the EU is probably the best thing to happen in British politics for a couple of decades.
It will force the mainstream party's to look at the EU and immigration issues again.
Eric Pickles (Conservative chairman?) seems to recognise the significance of the BNP getting 6% of the vote and actually seems quite tuned in to the reasons why that happened.
The truth is that most people (including those who voted BNP) do not want the hardline approach that the BNP advocates but they do want these two incredibly important issues if the EU and immigration dealt with. But if these two MEP's force any of the main party's to take a new look at policy then they have served a great purpose to this country.
What is also clear is that demonising the BNP and screaming "vote for us or the monsters will get into power" just isn't going to work. It has worked for the Labour Party but only in a very small way, if anything it has made Labour look worse as their only respnse o the BNP has been to mutter about evil people instead of presenting any meanigful alternative.

The message is very simple and it seems to be proving quite effective, the public is sick and tired of inept politicians refusing to deal with the issues that matter. The mainstream politicians will either have to deal with these issues or see a rise in fringe politicians in power. Even those hiding behind the cries of impending doom and shame know it.

One thing that really does make me feel ashamed is the reaction of politicians to the BNP success and that is the response of trying to force the BNP out by any means other than adressing the issues that allowed the BNP to ge votes in the 1st place.
I am pleased and proud that this country is finally making its democratic voice heard, if that means the BNP gets a couple of men into the EU Parliament then so be it. The answer is easy, Parliament needs to listen to the wants of the public on immigration and Europe and act accordingly. It is time for politicians to listen, those who think it is still their place to tell us what we are supposed to be doing rather than responding to our wishes are on borowed time.
Politics in this country is changing, its long overdue and it might just make this country a beter place.
The BNP having electoral success is democracy in action and at its best.
Want to get rid of the BNP? Deal with the issues that only they seem to be prepared to confront. If the mainstream party's give us a clear cut referendum on the EU and deal with the immigration issue (and that means both EU and non EU immigration) then the BNP will cease to be.
Or shall we just scream about the evil monsters that the BNP are and refuse to do anything? If so then we can look forward to a massive increase in far right support.

Originally Posted by stacker1

More a problem with the way people class them as special because they are a minority. And shy away from treating them the same because they don't want to be called racist.
It has not been my experience that racial minorities are treated any different in the Army or in civvy street. Certainly if you look at criminal conviction there seems to be an imbalance in favour of white people.


The stamp thing was an idea from the regiment paid for by regtimental subs (Which everyone paid into) nothing to do with enticing people to join.
Just another look what we are doing for minorites aren't we great. What harm would it have done to let British soldiers have the stamps (that they helped pay for) if they had family abroad? None what so ever but its easy to tell them they are getting nothing.
perhaps they were doing it out of genuine compassion but if they are paid the same as you then there is no reason to treat them differently. Might I suggest that you write your letter to your relatives abroad (I assume you do actually have some) and take it to the PRI officer and ask him to put a stamp on it? If he refuses then you have the right to ask him why you are being treated differently to your colleagues.


Yeah well in my time in the army I can assure you it doesn't happen that way.
I can give a good example of a little tit (black) straight out of training who was making allegations all the time, He accused a black full screw of picking on him for not giving him a sweet, he was quickly told to jog on. He accused the sqn of being racist for making him deploy to Aghanistan in green kit (despite being on the plane with white soldiers in green kit) he was taken out of work for an hour and politely explained to that there was no racism in the sqn, instead grow up you little throbber. He said a sgt was racist due to him given him work as he was black (despite most of the toms being black and someone had to do the work) It was statement time about 10 people had the afternoon off writing statement s to clarify the matter. The little prick always played the race card, the army always let him. It sounds as if your whinging man was a complete and utter throbber but it also sounds as if he didn't get away with anything. Did you ever think to ask one of the other black lads to take him under his wing? It might have helped.
As to our rasta friend apparently rastas are not allowed in the army (their rules not ours) doesn't stop the ones who are in dictating what rules they want to obey, like the Muslims who want time to pray (usually when there is work on) but are down the bar every night. It doesn't stop the army from treating them differently either.

Christians are just as guilty as anyone else at being selective about what doctrine they adopt. I know of plenty of churchgoers who have had time off to attend church and a few that have demanded it only because there was work to be done, they would still tuck in to meat on a Friday though and drink and play games on the Sabbath etc. It's also perfectly possible that people find their religion after they have joined the Army, not impossible. I'm also reminded of a Mormon we had who was found with tons of compo in the cellar of his MQ. He got away with it for a number of reasons about provenance etc but the main reason was fear of the religious aspects of his religion hoarding for Armageddon. In the end the compo was taken back and he was given a dressing down but nothing more, so it clearly isn't just ethnic minorities who pull the religion card is it? Why should Muslims have to be fundamentalist but not Christians, do you demand that all Catholics follow every aspect of their religion, or even remark upon it if they don't?

The BNP will gain further success because the mainstream parties have no idea on how to approach the issue of mass immigration. Labour are on the whole in support of mass immigration and Cameron doesn't want the tories to be labelled the "nasty" party again.

All the politicians come from the same political class and have completely neglected the views and opinions of the white working class. That arrogant attitude may just come and bite them on the backside because I think the BNP will grow stronger and stronger on the back of this result.

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/06/bnp-leader...gion%E2%80%99/

Apparently the RBL are exploiting British Soldiers...

"“I will be delighted to stop wearing a poppy badge except near Remembrance Day the moment that the Royal British Legion and the authorities stop the disgraceful treatment and exploitation of our soldiers at Selly Oak,� Mr Griffin said, adding that he “fully accepts that amongst those who have made sacrifices for this country in our armed forces, especially during current conflicts, are servicemen and women from the ethnic minorities. My stance is as much on their behalf as it is for their indigenous British comrades,� he said."

Mr Griffin said that he had been asked to raise the issue of the disgraceful treatment of British soldiers in Selly Oak by a volunteer organisation which “provides basic essentials including mobile phones, chocolates, toothpaste and pyjamas to seriously injured lads and young men who are dumped in Selly Oak wearing only the bloodstained uniforms in which they have been brought home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Anybody really believe that?

Originally Posted by Markintime

It has not been my experience that racial minorities are treated any different in the Army or in civvy street. Certainly if you look at criminal conviction there seems to be an imbalance in favour of white people.

Well that not my experience in the army now. (it was when I first joined up)

Originally Posted by Markintime

perhaps they were doing it out of genuine compassion but if they are paid the same as you then there is no reason to treat them differently. Might I suggest that you write your letter to your relatives abroad (I assume you do actually have some) and take it to the PRI officer and ask him to put a stamp on it? If he refuses then you have the right to ask him why you are being treated differently to your colleagues.]

It wasn't me, it was several other soldiers and yes they did ask and they were told it was because they were British they were not entitled (RAO words). What a great way to show how intergrated we are.

Originally Posted by Markintime

It sounds as if your whinging man was a complete and utter throbber but it also sounds as if he didn't get away with anything. Did you ever think to ask one of the other black lads to take him under his wing? It might have helped.

He did indeed get away with things because people were wary about approching him and him playing the race card again. He wasn't alone in doing it. It wasn't so much that he was doing it, t was more the fact the army refused to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by Markintime

Christians are just as guilty as anyone else at being selective about what doctrine they adopt. I know of plenty of churchgoers who have had time off to attend church and a few that have demanded it only because there was work to be done, they would still tuck in to meat on a Friday though and drink and play games on the Sabbath etc. It's also perfectly possible that people find their religion after they have joined the Army, not impossible. I'm also reminded of a Mormon we had who was found with tons of compo in the cellar of his MQ. He got away with it for a number of reasons about provenance etc but the main reason was fear of the religious aspects of his religion hoarding for Armageddon. In the end the compo was taken back and he was given a dressing down but nothing more, so it clearly isn't just ethnic minorities who pull the religion card is it? Why should Muslims have to be fundamentalist but not Christians, do you demand that all Catholics follow every aspect of their religion, or even remark upon it if they don't?

I don't see Christians getting time of work to go to church in my unit(not that they should anyway) in my unit. NO-ONE should be treated differently, but Muslims (and other minorities do) certainly do. It didn't matter that Christians stagged on over Christmas (quite right as well) but it did matter that the Muslims were working over their religious period (Nev or eve or something like that).
Think about this two toms are both working one non muslim and and a muslim, the Muslim disaapears 3 time during the working day to pray while the other soldier continues, Is this fair? Why can't the other soldier get a break at the same time? When I asked this as I thought the other soldier needed a rest I was told because hes not a Muslim.
Then people wonder why that soldier gets the hump with Muslims.

Originally Posted by stacker1

Think about this two toms are both working one non muslim and and a muslim, the Muslim disaapears 3 time during the working day to pray while the other soldier continues, Is this fair? Why can't the other soldier get a break at the same time? When I asked this as I thought the other soldier needed a rest I was told because hes not a Muslim.
Then people wonder why that soldier gets the hump with Muslims.

So it's not the managements fault, but the guy who has been given the time off?

Although I bet if the management were Muslim, then you blame them?

Do you really not see where you are going wrong? You blame the individuals, and mass-label them all too, when most of the issues you raise appear to result from your management.

Although do you think the non-Muslim soldier would have been happier if the Muslim wasn't in the army, and had to do all of the work alone?

Originally Posted by stacker1

Think about this two toms are both working one non muslim and and a muslim, the Muslim disaapears 3 time during the working day to pray while the other soldier continues, Is this fair? Why can't the other soldier get a break at the same time? When I asked this as I thought the other soldier needed a rest I was told because hes not a Muslim.
Then people wonder why that soldier gets the hump with Muslims.

Personally I have no problem with this. I rarely feel sorry for the non-smokers while I stand around doing nothing on each of my 20 or so fag breaks each day, if they want to have fag breaks then they can man up and start smoking. In a similar vein, if people want time off to pray three times a day there is nothing stopping them changing religion to muslim is there?