Thread: BNP Win Their First EU Seat

Originally Posted by MrShanklysboots

If you are saying that I am arrogant for not wanting to find out what it took for someone to vote for a Racist party with a Holocaust Denier as leader then I'm glad to be called arrogant.

Until you do find out why people vote for the BNP for (other than racist reasons), then you can't do much to persuade them to vote for someone else.

Originally Posted by Alsacien

Originally Posted by saintstone

For Christ's sake, the BNP got 2 seats in a parliament that means nothing to Joe Public. The only reason that they managed to get in was because only 35% of the eligible voters got off their collective arrses to vote. The reason for the low turnout are plenty, expenses scandals, apathy for the Govt and the fact that the European Parliament don't actually mean a lot to the man on the street until they find a new way to bend us over and bugger us. So, in the end, those 2 seats mean sod all, after all what damage can they cause to our way of living, the General Election, when it eventually comes, will be another matter. If you feel the need to rattle on about something outrageous, ask about how a British party, UKIP, can field an Argentine/Spanish candidate who resides in Spain to represent British interests in the European Parliament ??

But the UKIP are anti-EU, so they must be the good guys no

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the candidate in question is very much pro EU, work that one out, pro EU in an anti EU party and I thought Labour were screwed up (well, tbh, they are more screwed than screwed up)

Originally Posted by saintstone

Originally Posted by Alsacien

Originally Posted by saintstone

For Christ's sake, the BNP got 2 seats in a parliament that means nothing to Joe Public. The only reason that they managed to get in was because only 35% of the eligible voters got off their collective arrses to vote. The reason for the low turnout are plenty, expenses scandals, apathy for the Govt and the fact that the European Parliament don't actually mean a lot to the man on the street until they find a new way to bend us over and bugger us. So, in the end, those 2 seats mean sod all, after all what damage can they cause to our way of living, the General Election, when it eventually comes, will be another matter. If you feel the need to rattle on about something outrageous, ask about how a British party, UKIP, can field an Argentine/Spanish candidate who resides in Spain to represent British interests in the European Parliament ??

But the UKIP are anti-EU, so they must be the good guys no

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But the candidate in question is very much pro EU, work that one out, pro EU in an anti EU party and I thought Labour were screwed up (well, tbh, they are more screwed than screwed up)

I discussed this on another thread as I cannot stand career eurocrats in it for their own gain.
She is a pro-EU reformist who has said she will leave UKIP if elected.
She is currently under suspension from OECD for allegations of racism. She has been linked to 3 other parties as a potential MEP, UKIP finally offered to pay ALL her expenses.
I thought the thing in her favour was this whistle blowing thing on EU finance 7 years ago. Then I found there are 2 sides to every story and that she was 4 months into a 6 month probation, told she was not up to it and would not be made permanent, then she made the threats. This was taken to court, lost, appealed and lost again.....
Her MEP application form contained her Spanish mobile number and address.
UKIP party constitution states members must be British citizens, but she has Argentinian/Spanish dual nationality. Farage apparently changes his own rules when he feels like it.....

Ok. To answer some points.

Originally Posted by scousadan

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like you share the same views as the BBC and Nu Lab.

I have the view that the BNP is an organisation of Racists, run by Racists for Racists to vote for. If their views happen to gibe with mine - so be it.

Originally Posted by Bukit_Basha

Easy to do when you're only used to wax crayons.

Sorry - who are you?

Originally Posted by stacker1

Until you do find out why people vote for the BNP for (other than racist reasons), then you can't do much to persuade them to vote for someone else.

Christ - how hard is this. It is my opinion, that if you voted for the BNP, that you did it for entirely Racist reasons. Protest vote? Cry me a river.

The BNP are avowedly racist. If you voted for them so are you, IMO. Is that clear enough?

Originally Posted by stacker1

Originally Posted by MrShanklysboots

If you are saying that I am arrogant for not wanting to find out what it took for someone to vote for a Racist party with a Holocaust Denier as leader then I'm glad to be called arrogant.

Until you do find out why people vote for the BNP for (other than racist reasons), then you can't do much to persuade them to vote for someone else.

There is no reason to vote BNP other than for race related issues. It forms the basis of BNP constitution. Any waffle to try and express it otherwise is nonsence, or people trying to justify themselves. If you dont like darkies, daegos wops or spiks, just say so, dont fluff around. But then that goes against the values and standards you sign up to, so I guess its a bit of a dilemma for you. To suggest it was a protest vote is also tosh. There were 17 parties on that election slip, ranging from the Greens to some shiit about animals have feelings to party you could go for - or you could just scribble on the paper.

Any BNP voter trying to take the moral or even intellectual high ground is like Gordon Brown suggesting he is in full control of his bladder

You could protest vote for any number of random but harmless candidates. BNP candidates are proven racists, if you support them you endorse their views, making you a racist to.

Actually Shankly

By destroying your ballot paper you have in effect given up any right for you to be listened to in debate.

You opted to stay out the system.

Dont start whinging about it now

VH

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Actually Shankly

By destroying your ballot paper you have in effect given up any right for you to be listened to in debate.

You opted to stay out the system.

Dont start whinging about it now

VH

I disagree.

Those that stay at home forfeit their moral right to whinge. But those that have made an effort to vote, but find nobody on the list deserving of their X, have only one choice - spoil the ballot.

It may sound childish, but just imagine if spoiled ballots poll more than the candidates. That would make the political class sit up and listen. People have actually gone out of their way to show their dissatisfaction with the system.

Originally Posted by whitecity

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Actually Shankly

By destroying your ballot paper you have in effect given up any right for you to be listened to in debate.

You opted to stay out the system.

Dont start whinging about it now

VH

I disagree.

Those that stay at home forfeit their moral right to whinge. But those that have made an effort to vote, but find nobody on the list deserving of their X, have only one choice - spoil the ballot.

It may sound childish, but just imagine if spoiled ballots poll more than the candidates. That would make the political class sit up and listen. People have actually gone out of their way to show their dissatisfaction with the system.

It does sound childish.
Spoiled ballots are categorised in the same way as unclear ballots or incorrectly completed ballots = not counting for anything except the stupidity of some voters.

Many many people have died to keep the democratic system in this country over many centuries.
If you decide not to take part in an election then you have no say in the result.

By not casting your vote then you play into the hands of a toallitarian state.

With all the candidates there must have been at least one which came close to your ideals.

Do you really think they care about spoiled papers or sit at home voters, no they dont.
Democracy is slowly being taken away from us and these actions just play into their hands.

Griffin tried to speak outside parliament - had eggs thrown at him and the press conference broken up.

Perhaps the people are beginning to speak

Originally Posted by Whet

Griffin tried to speak outside parliament - had eggs thrown at him and the press conference broken up.

Perhaps the people are beginning to speak

No thats just the left acting like facists.

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-c...sreleaseid=110

I found this comparison of MEP's performance interesting.

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Do you really think they care about spoiled papers or sit at home voters, no they dont.

Not when spoilt ballots are in small numbers. However, imagine the reaction to:
Labour 2,400
Conservative 2,500
LimpDem 1,200
Spoiled ballots 14,500

I think someone will start caring then.

All the time that people stay at home, the political class continue to blame others for their laziness. Can't do that if you make an effort and demonstrate in the only democratic way available to show your disgust. Then they have to do something to change things. Got to be good for democracy.

Originally Posted by VanHelsing

Democracy is slowly being taken away from us and these actions just play into their hands.

It also leads to the 'success' of groups like the BNP.

Originally Posted by Whet

Originally Posted by whitecity

[
Yes. And many of New Labour's policies and practices fit the classical understanding of fascism. What's your point?

Really - which ones?

1. Introduction of legislation allowing discrimination on the grounds of sex and race.
2. Off-balance sheet financing (a Mussolini innovation).
3. Sidelining of the legislature, including deliberately misleading the house.
4. Politicisation of the Civil Service.
5. Partial suspension of Habeus Corpus enabling imprisonment without trial and a reduction in the availability of trial by jury.
6. Expansion of the criteria under which governmental and other agencies may enter private property without due process of law.
7. Use of the police to intimidate and harass political opponents.
8. Collusion in the use of torture in breach of international law.
9. Initiation of conflict in possible breach of international law.

In terms of practices, Tony Blair's use of language, particularly 'Battle' for this and 'fight' for that is pure Mussolini, taking his jacket off was pure Peron (Des Camisados - apologies if that's a speller) and the consistent use of the 'Big Lie' technique and the creation of 'out groups' is pure Goebbels. 'Forwards not backwards' was originally a Nazi slogan.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples but that'll do for now.

A while back I challenged Ashie to show me what foulness the BNP were proposing that they couldn't use Labour legislation in the last twelve years to demonstrate a precedent for. He ducked the challenge but please feel free.

The BNP are largely a Labour-created problem feeding on Labour supporters which is why they have won two seats in Labour's heartland - personally I hope both groups implode but, until that happy day, I am quite content to see them turn their bigotry and intolerance on each other instead of, as Labour has done since 1997, on my country. Both are nasty and unpleasant with very similar statist and authoritarian instincts and they deserve each other. Their fundamental disagreement seems to be about whom to discriminate against.

To the more hysterical posters who see fascists everywhere, I would suggest that the best remedy for extremism is a healthy national political life with open and honest debate. That means heaving the current collection of aparatchiks out of office and taking the current system, which was largely dependent on our politicians showing self-restraint and a sense of natural justice, and giving it the teeth and strength it requires to function fairly in an era of professional politicians.

Don't worry Whet. When and if necessary, the great majority of decent people in the UK will be happy to protect you from your former soulmates and political affiliates who, as many on the Left seem to do, have abandoned a definite for a certainty and, additionally, have been given an unhelpful stimulus by Government ineptitude since 1997.