ARmy Rumour SErvice

Dc - the number of RNR bases on the sea is absolutely tiny. HMS PRESIDENT is on a river and has moorings, as does HMS CALLIOPE. I believe SCOTIA is an office block within CALEDONIA, as is the case with VIVID. EAGLET has moorings too.
So, of the 13 RNR bases, 3 have access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000.

Originally Posted by jim30

Dc - the number of RNR bases on the sea is absolutely tiny. HMS PRESIDENT is on a river and has moorings, as does HMS CALLIOPE. I believe SCOTIA is an office block within CALEDONIA, as is the case with VIVID. EAGLET has moorings too.
So, of the 13 RNR bases, 3 have access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000.

SCOTIA is near as dammit in Rosyth dockyard, with a satellite on the Forth in Edinburgh. VIVID is inside Devonport dockyard. How does this not constitute "access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000"?

Originally Posted by Joe_Private

SCOTIA is near as dammit in Rosyth dockyard, with a satellite on the Forth in Edinburgh. VIVID is inside Devonport dockyard. How does this not constitute "access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000"?

As a member of HMS Scotia i can tell you now we havn't had HMS Claverhouse in Edinburgh for years, the 90's i think. We have Tay Division in Dundee. We got rid of our FML (Fast Motor Launch) about 7 years ago because it was almost never used and our RIB and MIB's have now gone aswell. We dont have the time or the money to use them.

EDIT There was the forth division in Claverhouses old building but that has closed again. But thats closed and the Sea Cadets are in that building

Originally Posted by instinct

As a member of HMS Scotia i can tell you now we havn't had HMS Claverhouse in Edinburgh for years, the 90's i think. We have Tay Division in Dundee. We got rid of our FML (Fast Motor Launch) about 7 years ago because it was almost never used and our RIB and MIB's have now gone aswell. We dont have the time or the money to use them.

EDIT There was the forth division in Claverhouses old building but that has closed again. But thats closed and the Sea Cadets are in that building

I forgot about Dundee, and I wasn't aware that Claverhouse was shut again. Maybe I should have taken Bouillabase's lead, and used WIki...

Do/did you use the facility on the South of the Forth, by Hopetoun House, for your boats?

Originally Posted by Joe_Private

I forgot about Dundee, and I wasn't aware that Claverhouse was shut again. Maybe I should have taken Bouillabase's lead, and used WIki...

Do/did you use the facility on the South of the Forth, by Hopetoun House, for your boats?

Port Edgar? We could do if we really felt like it, ive seen the RIB launched there once, i was a Sea cadets then using the Sailing school there as it was years ago. We could use RNAD Crombie instead.

There are enough places we could launch from. My problem is entirely a case of the lack of time or expertise to be able to do all this stuff. We have a hard enough job keeping competent with our current responsibilities with out adding to them.

Which part of 'XX DAYS A YEAR' is it that people don't understand? A Reserve by its very nature is not permanently empbodied. And as above the Reservist is retained for particular skills, not to go yachting.

The bare essential point is that for DC's views on what needs to happen, it HAS to be a regular force to achieve such a role. Not Reserve who although valuable, don't have the time to get good at such skills amongst other limiting factors.

So if you must discuss, leave the RNR out of it!

Originally Posted by jimmys_best_mate

If I'm on a hijacked ferry I think I'd rather take my chances with the hijackers than watch a couple of ships full of RN sailors attempt a boarding. The RN are very good at what they do. What they do, however, is not opposed boardings of ships full of hostages. That's left to the aforementioned gentlemen in Poole or Hereford for the very good reason that it's not really the kind of thing one can have a crack at just because one's done one's WHT and APWT.

All to do with timing though, if some terrorists attack a building or a grounded aircraft we’ve got all the time in the world to fly the SAS in and browse over detailed plans of the area/building. A ferry is a moving platform of roughly 30,000 gross tons which isn’t going to stop easily. If the terrorists have control of the bridge they can do whatever they want, ram other ships or crash into the port. How long is it going to take for the SBS to be flown in and get onboard a ferry? Unless the terrorists are daft enough to hijack the ferry halfway across the English Channel then there’s probably not much time, a more realistic tactic for the terrorists would be to take the ferry when it’s a few miles out of port. If this is the case then it’s more convenient for a rescue team to be flown in from the port or local area so as to cut the reaction time.

If a dedicated Coastguard were in place there could be 10-15 men standing by as part of a rescue team, these guys could be regular Coastguard and about as fit as regular plod with training in boarding ops. They could have a monthly exercise in boarding at a random time day/night to keep them on their toes and they could use an RFA ship or any other vessel which wishes to take part. They don’t necessarily have to storm the whole ship in a hostage scenario, that’s their call I guess, the essential thing is to regain control of the bridge. Once control of the bridge is established then special forces can be called in to deal with securing the ship.

The alternative is having a ferry full of passengers smash into a port causing a major catastrophe because there wasn’t enough time to react. In this case I’d rather have some amateurs try to retake control of the bridge than have the Harbour Master warn the terrorists off with obscene language on the VHF.

Originally Posted by Yeoman_dai

So, Dashing chap, you are in fact arguing in favour of forming, training, equipping, basing, legislating for and overall creating a 5th paramilitary Service to take over a whole slew of jobs from the variety of different services military and civilian who do it now...

I literally have no idea where to start, but i'll point out that even with the money from the IMF and such I think we'd struggle to cope. Where would the wages come from? Who would be ultimately responsible, the MoD or Home Office? Because looking at that list of equipment i'd guess their numbers of personnel is around 30,300... same as the current RN, and the government can barely afford those wages long term.

I think that would be a nice to have, rather than an essential.

Au contraire, I’m just arguing for an effective force to patrol the UK coast and ports. At the moment I think our ports are gravely lacking in essential security, who and what should take this role is by the by. If the Royal Navy can do the task then all well and good, if the Coastguard should be expanded to deal with it then fine, they use RN and RAF helo pilots for SAR so they could probably draw a few RN people into the role too and perhaps the RNLI. Incidentally, if a civvy organisation like the RFA were to take control of the coast and it meant a chance for me to go to sea again I'd be the first man through the door.

Originally Posted by jim30

Dc - the number of RNR bases on the sea is absolutely tiny. HMS PRESIDENT is on a river and has moorings, as does HMS CALLIOPE. I believe SCOTIA is an office block within CALEDONIA, as is the case with VIVID. EAGLET has moorings too.
So, of the 13 RNR bases, 3 have access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000.

Originally Posted by Joe_Private

SCOTIA is near as dammit in Rosyth dockyard, with a satellite on the Forth in Edinburgh. VIVID is inside Devonport dockyard. How does this not constitute "access to the sea with moorings capable of hosting a P2000"?

Pretty much answered there with Joe_Private’s post, some satellite divisions also have access to docks, major ports obviously have their own facilities.

Originally Posted by Yeoman_dai

The bare essential point is that for DC's views on what needs to happen, it HAS to be a regular force to achieve such a role. Not Reserve who although valuable, don't have the time to get good at such skills amongst other limiting factors.

So if you must discuss, leave the RNR out of it!

If the RNR can be involved in amphibious assault and aircrew then a specific branch can also be involved in guarding the coast.