My first post and it had to be a contentious subject ffs! Oh well, in to the breach...

I was a young squaddie when she and her ilk came to power and I did benifit from a significant pay rise soon after which clouded my view of her/them. I soon came to my senses though.

They won the election by employing a small advertising agency called Satchi and Satchi who introduced the UK to the slogan "Labour isn't working", which turned out to be the biggest irony of their (Tories) victory. Thatcher had been an ineffective leader of the Tories for 4 years prior to the election and as their policies proved ineffective they were, popularity wise, on their last legs. Luckily (or perhaps not) up popped a tin-pot general who needed a cause to support his ailing junta. Thatcher could not give one hoot about the welfare of the ex-Brits from the South Atlantic, all she cared about was her own political skin and the demise of the unions. If she cared about the welfare of Brits why did she and her cabinet not spend as much time and effort protecting the sovereignty of NI?

The magnificent efforts of HM Forces in the South Atlantic was used and abused by the Tories to retain power and it was also milked to the hilt when their next great junta came along. Scargill was a desperate figure with ideas above is station but he was right about the reason for the strike. There was a goverment agenda to castrate the unions in general (as the laws that had passed curtailing their powers showed) and the miners specifically. Don't get me wrong, any fool, no matter how young , could see that some unions needed re-organising but they were not all bad and they existed because there had been a need for them - never forget that. The last time the Tories had been in power they had been humiliated by the unions and it was time for vengance. What turned me against Thatcher was this period. It was a very ugly strike and she not only abused power she went into overkill. That was her road to Basra turkey shoot. As a wee aside I have ex-miner family and friends that will not share the same room as coppers from that period even if the coppers are their immediate family.

The power that came to that party during Thatchers leadership was used not to better Britain but to better Tories and the areas that could be easily influenced by Tory patronage. They did shut down industry in areas that they could not easily change and invest in areas that would look on them kindly. For 'looking on them kindly' read 'vote for'. We now have families that are producing the third generation of giro-jockeys. That is her legacy.

I could type, what some will call bile, for pages and pages on her but I'll save you my bitterness. Enough to say that no matter where I am in the world when she dies I will make it back to the UK in time for the ceilidh on her grave.

Now, where did I put my Agnostura?

Originally Posted by littlejim

Originally Posted by Ancient_Mariner

Originally Posted by Unknown_Quantity

I am frequently surprised at the venom that is directed at Thatcher, going by what her detractors say it would appear that they were actually preying for the crowd of lunatics we have today all through her tenure.

In the 70s, quite a few people still thought that communism in one form or another was the way ahead. Many, such as the Cambridge spies, formed their opinions during WWII when the Soviet Union fought against the Nazis. Others, like our own dear Rt Hon Patricia Hewitt MP were indoctrinated listening to left wing intellectuals at university during the 1960s.

Opinions varied from Stalinism, as espoused by President for Life Arthur Scargill, through to an alliance with the USSR with Soviet troops based in the UK as favoured by Tony Benn to the relatively mild but chaotic brand of socialism practised by Jim Callaghan.

Maggie is a hate figure for some because she crushed the hard left in Britain. Their dreams of a socialist utopia, presided over by an unelected, ruling elite, were dashed for ever.

As the Tories weren't on the trade union payroll, they had no incentive to tolerate abuses like closed shops, flying pickets and strikes being called on a whim by union barons. The rug was pulled from under the feet of the TUC.

Scargill went from being 'the enemy within' to being a laughing stock by declaring 'moral victory' as his members were leaving the NUM and his strikers were marching back to work.

Derek Hatton, aspiring Gauleiter for life of Liverpool, would have to wait a while for his first Jaguar when his worker's revolution failed to materialise, reputedly thanks to Maggie sending in MI5 and Special Branch.

Ken Livingstone failed to establish the Peoples Democratic Republic of London when Maggie abolished the GLC but it would be many years before Boris delivered the coup de grace.

Lesbian diversity consultant, Lewisham council leader and demander of reparations for slavery, Linda Bellos would no longer be able to ban Met Police officers from council property.

1979 - The dream died for rabid, communist nutters everywhere and they still curse Maggie for locking the gates to their playground for the loony left.

And could all these specimens of the loony left have done one per cent of the damage to Britain that the rabid right have been responsible for?

If, as you claim, the lefties dreamed of unelected control of the UK, the reality is that the western world is now controlled by unelected multi-national companies. Companies, it now turns out, run by idiots who make Scargill and Livingstone look like geniuses.

You sound like a survivor of the Titanic claiming that it was the stokers' fault the Captain put the ship on a collision course with an iceberg. Yes, Thatcher was strong willed and didn't care what damage she caused in trying to prove she was always right. Field Marshal Haig had exactly the same attitude and killed or wounded almost a million British soldiers because of them. I have nothing but contempt for him and nothing but contempt for Thatcher. As will generations of Britons as yet unborn. She turned my country into a plantation divided between the rich and the slaves, which is why I left. It wasn't my idea of a civilised society.

Now it's turned out to be a Reagan/Thatcher style free enterprise paradise where the trickle down effect is the CEO's and financiers pissing on the average citizen before taking their private planes loaded with gold bars to Switzerland and Israel. Leaving the dickheads who let them get away with it to starve on the dole.

One day I hope to have the pleasure of pi==ing on Thatcher's grave. In the meantime I suggest you look out of your window. Welcome to the Iron Lady's legacy. Enjoy it to the depths of your Tory soul before the IMF bailiffs arrive with the final notice.

Have to agree with your sentiment, for me who was an adult and one of the fortunates who was employed throughtout this time it was the callous disregard for the whole generation that were cast adrift from society and kept unemployed to prove the dogma that market forces work, as for the so called tickle down effect I think that has been proved to be a non existent phenomenon by what has happened recently, the total break down of the financial sector has it's roots in this time and was helped by Quisling Blair and his lying band of opportunists, I don't know who was worse the 'feck you jack' brigade of the right or the centrist fools we have now.At least the Tory supporters were blatently open in what they were about.
The basic tennents of society have been ripped up and replaced by what we have now, a totally disfunctional selfish and greedy sector of people who's aim is to take whatever they can and feck the rest of you from whichever political 'side'. This country has become a one party state where central government is run to the benefit of 'global' buisness and not the people it it is elected by, no wonder a government can be elected by less than 25% of the eligible population.

Originally Posted by MikeMcc

Originally Posted by parapauk

Originally Posted by Ancient_Mariner

Originally Posted by littlejim

And could all these specimens of the loony left have done one per cent of the damage to Britain that the rabid right have been responsible for?

...

One day I hope to have the pleasure of pi==ing on Thatcher's grave. In the meantime I suggest you look out of your window. Welcome to the Iron Lady's legacy. Enjoy it to the depths of your Tory soul before the IMF bailiffs arrive with the final notice.

One question:-

Overall, do you think that Britain was in a better state under Sunny Jim and Comrade Wilson in the 1970s than under the Iron Lady in the 1980s?

Did she have a quadrupling of oil prices, a dollar devaluation and a breakdown of the postwar financial structure that triggered the greatest stock market crash in postwar history to deal with?

No, nor did she directly contribute to that situation. She didn't sell of the gold reserves at their lowest level. Oil has been steadily increasing since 1973, so that is a crap point to raise. I remember the dollar being at the same level as it is now and recovering nicely, so yet another crap point raised in arguement. If the regualatory structure post Thatcher was so poor, why didn't Zanu NL fix it in the 12 years that they have been in office?
I remember how each year, in the budget, GB used to crow that he had seen x years of growth in the British economy, unfortunately it was actually x-4 years of growth under Liarbore.

no she just sold off the electricity generation system, water services, gas industry, closed the mines, shipyards and engineering sectors and turned us into a 'service' economy we produce very little of what we consume so are dependant on the 'market forces' so beloved of the Tory party, even now, be under no illusion.
As for the second point 'New Labour' are really frustrated Tory's who had the wrong parentage to be True Blues but found a way of gaining power by hijacking a party that had torn itself apart and would do anyhting to get elected.......hmmm sounds familiar don't you think.
It would be nice to think that there could be a party of people who wish to serve everyone rich or poor in this country and that we ALL would pay our fair way and expect to have to work for a living whilst not denegrating those who can't, are willing to pay for a system of high quality healthcare and education that is accessible to all without direct charge, unfortunately these people are in short supply so we will have to continue with the imperfect system we have as we have done for centuries good or bad!

No one is going to have their opinion changed about the woman by what is written on here. But I think, with perhaps the exception of ashie and parapuk, the cunt lot of losers have farked the country for the foreseeable future.

And just for that added retro 70s feeling you can expect power cuts next year when they have to start closing old worn out power stations that this lot failed to plan for.

Originally Posted by TheHatsRevenge

... This country has become a one party state where central government is run to the benefit of 'global' buisness and not the people it it is elected by, no wonder a government can be elected by less than 25% of the eligible population.

I wouldn't disagree, but whose fault is that? Even I, at my most rabid, would not blame the government for the failure of the electorate to vote in an election.

In truth, the electorate doesn't turn out at elections because it is comfortable with what it has and doesn't, IMHO, feel there to be a pressing need to leave the television and find the polling station.

Litotes

What amazes me in these debates is the incredible sense of entitlement and feeling that society at large owes them something displayed by members of the post war generation...cradle to grave care, nationalised industries and being able to go on strike whenever you fancy a day off were not 'the basic tenets of society' but a short term aberration of 1945-79, and thank fcuk they got rid of them, the post-war consensus was turning Britain into a third world country, now we just need to fix the cultural damage wrought by the '45-'79 era, and eliminate the concept that you can get something for no effort that the Welfare state created...

Originally Posted by Bradstyley

What amazes me in these debates is the incredible sense of entitlement and feeling that society at large owes them something ...

Good post BS, but, Britain owes its working people a great great deal. The crippling social injustice of industrialisation; the desperate lives of individuals who were exploited. Thatcher briliantly 'spun' a picture of post-war Britain as failure. On balance it was a remarkable success story. Britain was bankrupt two years into WWII. It had lost Empire markets, and post-war balanced re-arming, funded a welfare and health service.

Thatcher and Howe barely mention their saviours in their auto-biogs, North Sea Oil, and we won't know what might have happened if we had invested this golden goose into our own industry rather than investing in others' overseas. In the early 50s we were still world leaders in key markets but split our investment, and we failed again to invest under Thatcher.

Originally Posted by Ord_Sgt

No one is going to have their opinion changed about the woman by what is written on here. But I think, with perhaps the exception of ashie and parapuk, the * lot of losers have farked the country for the foreseeable future.

And just for that added retro 70s feeling you can expect power cuts next year when they have to start closing old worn out power stations that this lot failed to plan for.

I wouldn't blame this lot for failing on the power front... yet. It takes a long time to build a power station. If the last bunch of crooks (the Conservatives) had done their job properly, we could have new power stations coming on-line now.

This lot have also failed to provide (and plan) for new power stations and will only be let off the hook in the short term by the fact that the recession has cut power usage by a large amount. But we do now have a large number of subsidised windmills that weren't there 10 years ago. An awful lot of "friends of the environment" have made (and are still making) an awful lot of money out of that! :D

Litotes

Litotes, I agree to a point. However there was a report sent to No 10 some years ago - 5 or 6 - which warned a decision needed to be taken then so planning could begin. It was promptly ignored. The fall out is the first of the stations - if memory serves me - that need to be switched off comes next year. Based on current demand there will be insufficient capacity, which means power cuts.

I remember as a kid in the 70's getting the candles out and having some quality family time - so it should be fun :D

Originally Posted by Bradstyley

What amazes me in these debates is the incredible sense of entitlement and feeling that society at large owes them something displayed by members of the post war generation...cradle to grave care, nationalised industries and being able to go on strike whenever you fancy a day off were not 'the basic tenets of society' but a short term aberration of 1945-79, and thank fcuk they got rid of them, the post-war consensus was turning Britain into a third world country, now we just need to fix the cultural damage wrought by the '45-'79 era, and eliminate the concept that you can get something for no effort that the Welfare state created...

So you must be of the pre war generation then?, the reality is that the welfare state created equality in health care and education instead of only the priveleged who could afford quality health care and education, based on a fair taxation system which entitled ALL to the same level of health care paid for by ALL.
What happened in the 80's was mass unemployment as a tool to again suppress the Unionised Labour market using the low levels of benefit to prevent mass starvation, unfortunately because benefit dependency was deliberately allowed to become so endemic it has caused a generation of people to only know that the state provides everything 'as of right' and not that there is greater benefit and dignity to be able to work for a living, then along come this current lot who have destroyed the whole concept by throwing in too many right's, quite what the answer is I don't know but it isn't a return to pre wwII standards