What ruined shipbuuilding (and carmaking) apart from ridiculous restrictive practices by the Unions, was the high price of steel. Nationalised industries bought this steel, which was also nationalised, and made with nationalised electricity, which was generated from nationalised coal. At each level the Unions added cost to the process, but the main factor in bankrupting the ship- and car-bulders was ultimately the high cost of coal at the bottom of the industrial chain. The result was the inevitable, ineluctable, triumph of socialism in which all five industries went bust together, pushed over the edge by Arthur Scargill. We now, with privatised mines, produce more coal than ever we did, with a miles more efficient process because the NUM aren't there to wreck it.

As a further example, the docks went bust because the Unions (and Michael Foot) resisted containerisation - might as well have rtried to stop the tide coming in - and Felixstowe which was private rapidly overtook London. Even now our container ports are not a patch on Singapore's which is totally automated.

Who remembers the seamen's strike that pushed British seamen completely off the high seas? It only takes 13 people to run a 100,000 ton, 40 knot container ship - what price the NUS?

It is absolutely inevitable in any nationalised process (including the Civil Service, education, and the NHS) that it ends up being run for the people in it and not for the taxpaying public, and becomes utterly sclerotic with drones employed in non-jobs pushing up the costs.

Originally Posted by drain_sniffer

Originally Posted by roadster280

Originally Posted by pombsen-armchair-warrior

I wonder if this sense of community still exists, or if it is something that has, like so many great British attributes and qualities, fallen victim to the 'me' and 'self-preservation' culture.

Wasn't the strike all about "'me' and 'self-preservation' culture"? Didn't the miners object to closure of uneconomic pits (ie "me"), and didn't they rebel about the elimination of their occupation (ie "self preservation").

What a pity that the miners could not see that their own wage demands had made themselves redundant. If it's cheaper to buy coal (or steel, or make ships) overseas than it is to produce domestically, then some serious thinking on the part of the union leaders should have happened. But no.

Tragic for the communities, a blessing for the rest of UK industry, and an investment in the UKs future. The coal, after all, is still in the ground. When it becomes economic to extract it (and it will), then mining will resume. Just not with unionised Labour puppets.

I think it was a bit more than that. Arthur Scargil was the last in the breed of "you cant touch me Im part of the Union " Bde that brought the country almost to its knees in the 70's. He was a man who believed in his own destiny and believed that the strike was not just about uneconomic mines, but a class struggle against the anti working class establishment. Never mind the state of public finances, his demands that a mine should remain open, even if operating at a substantial loss was the duty of the Government. Unfortunatly for him and the miners, his destiny co-incided with Maggie who needed to work out the financial mess she had inherited.....the rest as they say is History

Spot on DS. As I remember the strike had as much to do with Maggies drive to destroy the union that brought down the cons in the 70s as it did with unprofitable pits. She succeeded and in so doing cast Scargil and cronies into the pits of history. I also remember Ghadaffi offering assistance with food aid and the police T shirts A S P O M. Laughable now really.

Originally Posted by Tytus_Barnowl

I also remember Ghadaffi offering assistance with food aid and the police T shirts A S P O M. Laughable now really.

Laughable?
It you want laughable try finding out where the money so kindly donated to the NUM by the Soviet Union ended up.
Try asking Scargill if he knows, nobody else does.....
Here we are, 25 years down the line and paying the price of binning coal and creating an entrely service based economy.

My Father was a miner for all his working life apart from Military service, as where all his brothers bar one, born deaf.
When I was say 15/16 Ma said John what do you want to do when you leave school ?
Go darn Pit Says I.
My father all but leaped out of his armchair and said No you won't.
He never batted a eyelid when some years later I said I was giving up my apprenticeship to join up.
It's impossible to explain to folk who do not come from a mining community the depth of feeling of Miners. Their sense of loyalty and their willingness to place ones life on the line where trapped or injured comrades are concerned.
Several of my childhood mates went Darn Pit, some supported the Strike others did not. They still have not spoken since, never will but will attend an old mates funeral.
I consider Scargill a traitor. A traitor to the UK and above all a traitor to the men he lead.
He has Profited, his Men where sold down the river to further his Political ambitions.
Maggei, not really someone you could Luv, but a Leader when things went wrong.
She sold a generation of working men to the scrapheap BUT she pulled UK out of the sh1t and I regret that there is No Politician of this era who can do the same in My Countries Hour of Need.
john

The day Uk became a second rate no balls country and the 52nd state of USA.

There is no Utility or manufacturing company owned by a UK person or UK company.

For those that have dificulty reading I shall repeat - Owned by a UK person or UK company.

And as a teaser for the inept.
SKY tv is an offshore registered company.
SKY tv pay NO TAX TO THE UK. NOT ONE PENNY. Thats over £/800 Million per year profit that no tax is payed.
ONLY Employees of SKY tv pay NI and tax.

But dont be worried.
Scargill got his way = coal industry died.
Thathcher got her way = destroy unions.
Started family chav benefit culture.

So chav hunters you should be looking to hang scargill and thatcher from the local lamp post before going after the muslem/ragheads who now piss on our country.

As AM has already said, Scargill wanted nothing less than to bring down the hated Tory government. Remember, the unions, of which the miner's was arguably the most powerful, had already brought about the end of Ted Heath's government, when challenged by them, he went to the polls, and lost, thus ushering in Harold Wilson, who had surrendered to the union collective even before hanging his coat up.
When Wilson's government fell, again, as a direct result of union misconduct and pepetual striking, Mrs Thatcher swept in. Scargill hated her for many reasons, and his determination was that he would bring down her government. There had been many negotiations already, and some very generous gestures and concessions by the government, but it would not have mattered what the Tories said or did; Scargill wanted them out, and in preference, his puppets in. Thus was set the scene for what was tantamount to a civil war, with brother against brother, father against son. Interestingly, the Nottinghamshire miners, a strong group from the NUM, declined to strike and kept working, leading to the formation of a breakaway union.
The once powerful NUM, which in it's heyday had a membership of many thousands, now has around 400, and is no longer seated in the TUC pantheon. Scargill has done rather well out of it, with a large bungalow and a good salary. And a new female partner. It was said that he started the strike with a large union and a small house, and ended with a large house and small union.

AS for the shipyards; the unions there destroyed the industry with restrictive practices, wildcat strikes and refusals to offer delivery dates. Swan Hunter, on Tyneside, was struggling, when an order for 12 trawlers came in which would have guaranteed work for 2 years, with the promise of much more to come. The only proviso was that a guaranteed delivery date be set and held to. Not unreasonable, and was a generous amount of time, but the union said it refused to be dictated to,and that to guarantee that there would be no strikes was an infringement of their liberties. And so the order was given to Poland and Swan Hunter and Wigham Richardson, a proud shipyard that had produced many good and strong ships, died.

Oddly enough, speak to those strike breakers now and they will tell you that they unwittingly contributed to the death of the industry.

They went on strike at the wrong time, as somebody else here has intimated. Thatcher however was a big dirty fibber. She closed collierys that later reopened and still operate at a profit today!

That said, I dread to think what would have become of the country if Scargills NUM had won.

The idea of unions is sound, protect workers interests. The problem was by the 70's it was all out of balance. The miners strike was the culmination of it all. Whatever side of the fence you sit on unions were out of control and something had to be done.

Originally Posted by seaweed

As a further example, the docks went bust because the Unions (and Michael Foot) resisted containerisation - might as well have rtried to stop the tide coming in - and Felixstowe which was private rapidly overtook London. Even now our container ports are not a patch on Singapore's which is totally automated.

At the time of the miners strike, I remember Arthur tried to get the docks to strike as well. Deputations went to Felixstowe but, of course, Felixstowe had never been part of the Dock Labour Scheme and so their pleas fell on deaf ears. Their wives and children also went into the town with collecting buckets and I think they were quite surprised by the apathy to their plight.

Originally Posted by roadster280

Yes, UK industrial history is littered with successful strike intervention.

British Leyland - What's left of it now? Chinese and Indians.
British Rail - All privatised so it can try and make money. NUR is no more
British Steel - Sheffield, Rotherham, Ravenscraig - all ruined
British Shipbuilders - gone. Just two or three yards left
NCB - Decimated

So some tube drivers go on strike, and postpone the day they lose.

Mind you, it's not just the UK. Look at the US car industry. Fully unionised, and the UAW have negotiated themselves into a position where Detroit is toast.

Did you actually live though any of this, brokerboy?

Look here at what the unions have done to the UK.

Yeah, unions are great.

i lived through it all mate, and pretty much agree with most of what you have written, my objection is to some 20 something knows feck all tosser who has been fed on a diet of army style propaganda slating the blokes who just wanted to save their jobs,and feed their families