ARmy Rumour SErvice

**alib** · 05-01-2009, 19:23

Originally Posted by Sven

...
Utter bollox NM.

If Eire was sponsoring the fenian terrorism then I would have expected similar activities that Israel conducts. As it is, when fire came from the South and we were able to, we were quite robust in returning fire.

Hang on. I recall active arms smuggling by at least one TD, a remarkably lax attention to border security during the early troubles compared with the BSE era that allowed the PIRA long rifles much latitude to provide the logistics of terror and rather open training, there was a great deal of hand sitting by the Guarda as well as suspicions of active collusion. The Freestaters were often distinctly unhelpful in just the same way the Syrians are in Iraq and London generally respected their sovereignty.

If the Brits had attacked the Falls Road let alone Dublin with a single helicopter gunship we all know DC would have been screaming war crime. The Oirish Septics are still whining about Bloody Sunday decades while the trigger happy IDF clock up higher civilian kill rates on practically a monthly basis with no murmur of disapproval. Truth is back in the day the elite of Boston deserved a few hellfires up the jacksee better than anyone.

Oh and it's just struck me: PIRA being more gentlemanly than Hamas like the IDF also phoned in warnings as they were about to demolish their "economic targets" and loudly touted their aversion to civilian casualties (sometimes even if they were Prods) as the shoppers were inevitably maimed and killed.

**ugly** · 05-01-2009, 19:24

Originally Posted by Khyros

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I disagree Khyros. The UK sent troops in initially to stop an early version of ethnic cleansing by Protestants against catholics. The argument about desperate attempts to retain empire are as tired as they are wrong. Ulster is part of the UK and will be for a while yet. I would suggest Scotland has as much autonomy as NI, although I don't recall London having the option to suspend the Scots National assembly.

Your post about the North joining with the south is feasible-probably around the time Texas becomes part of Mexico. The problem is NOT Protestant families moving away, more that the percentage of Catholics is increasing (old fashioned argument regarding religion and birth control) Don't delude yourself that all RCs want to unify Ireland.

Uh... waitaminute... weren't British troops providing the muscle for the assorted loyalist gentry during the potato famine? Look... my point was not to get into a pi55ing match concerning what could be a powder keg of debate but rather to point out that though there are some simularities between Britain's experience in N.I. and what is going on in Gaza, the solutions are not going to be the same at all. Had the UK gone heavy handed with the IRA in the form of close air and indirect fires, chances are the rest of Ireland would have become very hostile and many allied nations would have been questioning their relationship with you.

Were you there?
in which case shut the duck up, the militias required a magistrate to call them out, lets face it clearance wasnt needed as most poor farmers took their chances and emigrated when evicted by Irish born bailifs ordered in by Irish born landlords. Wolf Tone was a prod and a from noble class and it wasnt all left footers kicked out!
If anything the Porrige wogs were treated far worse and still lined up to fight for the King!

**Sven** · 05-01-2009, 19:52

Originally Posted by alib

Originally Posted by Sven

...
Utter bollox NM.

If Eire was sponsoring the fenian terrorism then I would have expected similar activities that Israel conducts. As it is, when fire came from the South and we were able to, we were quite robust in returning fire.

Hang on. I recall active arms smuggling by at least one TD, a remarkably lax attention to border security during the early troubles compared with the BSE era that allowed the PIRA long rifles much latitude to provide the logistics of terror and rather open training, there was a great deal of hand sitting by the Guarda as well as suspicions of active collusion. The Freestaters were often distinctly unhelpful in just the same way the Syrians are in Iraq and London generally respected their sovereignty.

If the Brits had attacked the Falls Road let alone Dublin with a single helicopter gunship we all know DC would have been screaming war crime. The Oirish Septics are still whining about Bloody Sunday decades while the trigger happy IDF clock up higher civilian kill rates on practically a monthly basis with no murmur of disapproval. Truth is back in the day the elite of Boston deserved a few hellfires up the jacksee better than anyone.

Oh and it's just struck me: PIRA being more gentlemanly than Hamas like the IDF also phoned in warnings as they were about to demolish their "economic targets" and loudly touted their aversion to civilian casualties (sometimes even if they were Prods) as the shoppers were inevitably maimed and killed.

I agree with much of what you say. However I don't think aiding the IRA was ever a political strategy of the Eiran government.

I think that hand sitting and lax borders were down to individuals rather than an overall concern.

**Khyros** · 05-01-2009, 19:59

Originally Posted by ugly

Were you there?
in which case shut the duck up, the militias required a magistrate to call them out, lets face it clearance wasnt needed as most poor farmers took their chances and emigrated when evicted by Irish born bailifs ordered in by Irish born landlords. Wolf Tone was a prod and a from noble class and it wasnt all left footers kicked out!
If anything the Porrige wogs were treated far worse and still lined up to fight for the King!

No doubt there were Irish inflicted grevious hardships upon other Irish. However, there was a sizable British military presence on the island in the 1840's which was increased as food riots and other sorts of unpleasant anti establishment behavior occured. Of course folks emigrated away when given the chance... wouldn't you have under the circumstances? It's not like they had a snowball's chance in hell of doing anything else under the conditions that existed.

**ugly** · 05-01-2009, 20:07

No more a presence than anywhere else in the UK or Empire and in fact regiments were manned almost entirely by Irishmen thanks to active recruiting over there and the hardships that helped provide labour for the industrial revolution came from the countryside of all 4 nations of the union and not just ireland. In fact my fathers family moved to Belfast for work about that time rather than dig canals or railways!
Starvation wages in agriculture were national not only for Ireland and only ijn Scotland with the clearances was there an orchestrated effort to root out the crofters in favour of large tenant farms!

**Idrach** · 05-01-2009, 20:11

Originally Posted by Khyros

No doubt there were Irish inflicted grevious hardships upon other Irish. However, there was a sizable British military presence on the island in the 1840's

We can start on the US Government and US Army's treatment of the Native Americans if you want the stones to break all our glass houses or we can get back to the point? (I appreciate that the Marine Corps probably had little to do with that but, hey, brush & tar?)

Is there an entirely innocent nation anywhere? I doubt it - we (Britain) certainly aren't. But please don't hijack this thread for random guilt-spreading.

**ugly** · 05-01-2009, 20:16

well done!

**Khyros** · 05-01-2009, 22:05

Originally Posted by Idrach

Originally Posted by Khyros

No doubt there were Irish inflicted grevious hardships upon other Irish. However, there was a sizable British military presence on the island in the 1840's

We can start on the US Government and US Army's treatment of the Native Americans if you want the stones to break all our glass houses or we can get back to the point? (I appreciate that the Marine Corps probably had little to do with that but, hey, brush & tar?)

Is there an entirely innocent nation anywhere? I doubt it - we (Britain) certainly aren't. But please don't hijack this thread for random guilt-spreading.

My intent was not to hijack but to make a point. Most nations have thier dark moments concerning native populations... mine is no differant. One thing stands out amongst all examples though is how disenfranchisement leads to violent conflict... doesn't matter if they are Palestinian, Irish, Cherokee, Tamil or any other name the end result is the same. Sad to think that after centuries of recorded human history we as a species never learn from it.

**ugly** · 05-01-2009, 22:10

But the palestinians arent native of anywhere, they chose to leave the newly captured Israeli areas and have been rejected by everyone of their so called allies who only use them as a stick to bash the yids. At least the issies left them with an area they can make a democratic mess of on their own and then they whinge when Israel retaliates for indiscriminate rocket attacks?
Now how is that different from invading Iraq when Hussein refused to acknowledge and hand over the WMDs, Oh yes thats how, there werent any and it was a giant fecking shaved chimp and princess tony ego trip!
Thats how you invade some elses country and flatten whole towns using tanks and artillery!

**Khyros** · 05-01-2009, 22:18

Originally Posted by ugly

But the palestinians arent native of anywhere, they chose to leave the newly captured Israeli areas and have been rejected by everyone of their so called allies who only use them as a stick to bash the yids. At least the issies left them with an area they can make a democratic mess of on their own and then they whinge when Israel retaliates for indiscriminate rocket attacks?
Now how is that different from invading Iraq when Hussein refused to acknowledge and hand over the WMDs, Oh yes thats how, there werent any and it was a giant fecking shaved chimp and princess tony ego trip!
Thats how you invade some elses country and flatten whole towns using tanks and artillery!

Hmm... here's a question. What percentage of the Palestinians crammed into Gaza were returning refugees from Jordan and what percent were uprooted from their homes by the IDF and Israeli policy?