Who is best , SA80 / M16 , M4 carbine ?

Discussion in 'Infantry' started by recce, Sep 24, 2006.

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  1. recce
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    recce Swinger

    :? The sa80 breaks down in billions of picies and has problems with the NATO ammo, and the weight compared to the M16 . The M16 breaks down easy in two and it cleanend easy, and don't have the Shit whit the standard NATO ammo.
     
  2. Bagster
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    Bagster Old-Salt

    Is English your first language?
     
  3. Bad_Crow
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    Bad_Crow LE

    I don't know who you are talking about but SA80 is a sh1t name. As are the others. Maybe your Airsoft kit you keep in your mums wardrobe for weekends falls into little pieces.
    The L85A2 is a good bit of kit. The weight is more than acceptable and only a pansy would think it was too heavy.
    As for our ammunition. In six years I have seen 1 misfired 5.56mm round. This was due to dirt. The round was cleaned and fired (Against Regs).
     
  4. Blind_Pew
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    Blind_Pew Old-Salt

    You can keep the SA80 and the M16, give me an old SLR anyday. :D
     
  5. Mag_to_grid
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    Mag_to_grid LE

    Dont think id want anything much lighter than the SA80 anyway, at least you know if you need to club someone over the head with it they are going down.
     
  6. Bad_Crow
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    Bad_Crow LE

    What a spanner!
     
  7. crazybrit82
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    crazybrit82 Swinger

    L85A2

    In 1997 the SA80 was dropped from NATO's list of approved weapons, following which an upgrade programme was started. In 2000 Heckler & Koch, at that time owned by Royal Ordnance, were contracted to fix the problems. Two hundred thousand SA80s were remanufactured at a cost of £400 each producing the A2 variant of the weapon. By 2002 the upgraded versions were deployed in first line formations; however, the A1 version remains in use for familiarisation purposes during basic training. The upgrade involved replacement of many internal parts and has vastly increased reliability, to the point of making it one of the most reliable of bullpup configuration weapons.

    In March 2005, the L85A2 was put through its paces against the M16, M4, AK-101, FAMAS G2 and G36E modern rifles. [citation needed] It outperformed all of them in accuracy (even without the SUSATs), reload speed (physically changing magazine on the move and static) and usability in urban and close-quarters combat (because of its shorter overall length and the ability to affix a bayonet). A2 upgraded versions also have a higher muzzle velocity. The AK-101 won reliability on multiple terrain, weather and climatic scenarios. The ranks in the test were:

    1. SA80
    2. G36E
    3. M16 family
    4. AK-101
    5. FAMAS G2

    However, the A2's service in Afghanistan was again criticised while in active service with the Royal Marines. According to the Marines, the upgraded A2 version of the SA80 was too difficult to clean and prone to jamming in conditions of heat, cold, sand, and dust[3][1]. An official enquiry concluded that the Marines were not cleaning their rifles frequently enough or in an 'approved' manner. The Sunday Telegraph claimed the inquiry's findings infuriated senior officers in the Royal Marines who described the conclusion in the enquiry as a "whitewash".[4]

    Weight remains the L85A2's most cited drawback. As with the L85A1, with most of the weight near the back, a large metal counterbalance in the fore grip was required.

    The adoption of the L85A2 version of the SA80 is not universal within the British Armed Forces. Many specialist UK units, such as the SAS, SBS, the Brigade Patrol Troop of 3 Commando Brigade and the Pathfinder Platoon use AR-15 rifle variants rather than the SA80 because of their different combat requirements, chronic problems with the SA80's extreme-weather performance and reliability[3], and need for a lighter 5.56 mm combat rifle.

    In a further Heckler & Koch upgrade, a number of L85A2 rifles are now being fitted with the HK AG36 40 mm grenade launcher in a configuration similar to the M203, called the UGL (Underslung Grenade Launcher). Problems were experienced with availability of these rife/grenadier adaptations and their grenade ammunition, and they have not yet been extensively distributed or used by large numbers of soldiers or marines. The addition of the (unloaded) UGL adds another 3.30 lb (1.49 kg) to the already hefty L85A2 rifle.

    L85A2 Beat the competition...... if you want the whole story ---> SA80

    The weights at the back.. um well DUR its a ******* bulpup, SA80 rocks :twisted:
     
  8. Bagster
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    Bagster Old-Salt

    Have you actually used both yourself? Please give us the benefit of your broad experience and share with us your thoughts on the issue!
     
  9. Bad_Crow
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    Bad_Crow LE

    Have you ever actually served in a military organisation... Ever?
     
  10. crabby
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    crabby LE

    Bad_Crow, don't be so mean.

    He's got airsoft versions of all of them. But what's extra extra gucci is the Steyer 2000 FN Mag minimi 3000 ultra deluxe, cos it's light and like kills people innit
     
  11. Devilishdave
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    Devilishdave War Hero

    L85A2 is the best of the bunch; fact!!

    David
     
  12. Bagster
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    Bagster Old-Salt

    Are you talking to me?

    It's just that I've got a complex about questions like that....I'm quite sensitive and would rather not talk about it! :cry:
     
  13. recce
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    recce Swinger

    Thanks crazybrit82 that answer the Q.
    So the L85A2 is top of the pile.
    I have not served in a military organisation, But i am a recruit(Fruit bat)and just wanted some info on the SA80 and the rest of the weapon in the arsenal.
    And seemed that i got some.
     
  14. crazybrit82
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    crazybrit82 Swinger

    Does the Air Training Corps come under a military organisation? :D
     
  15. Mag_to_grid
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    Mag_to_grid LE

    You will get Some!
     
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