This is why we need changes to the law protecting TA soldiers

Discussion in 'The ARRSE Hole' started by Cardinal, Jun 16, 2011.

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  1. Cardinal
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    Cardinal War Hero

    About a month ago I was asked to provide med cover for the weekend 18/19 June. Since I do not usually work weekends I said that I would. There is however a major public event that my employer hosts so I made sure I was not needed and that other staff would be working.

    I was asked again two weeks ago and again last week, since nothing had changed I said I would cover the weekend.

    On Friday of last week a member of staff at my civillian employment was sacked and another suspended, yesterday my boss told me straight that I had to cover for them at the public event and that I had no choice but to work. It was essential for work and if I didn't attend my job would be on the line. I was placed in a position of having to choose between the TA and my full time job

    I phoned my PSI and told him the position, he quite understandably was pi**ed off (although he was able to get med cover quite easily). Three times he has asked me to confirm my attendance and three times I have said there was no problem with my doing so. But given the ultimatum by my civillian employer what choice did I have? very little

    If the employment laws were changed so that attendance at TA training was a legal requirement and employers were bound by these laws then such ultimatums would themselves become against the law. PSI's could count on soldiers attending training and most importantly TA soldiers themselves would not be forced to choose between the TA and their employer.

    As it stands my PSI is understandably annoyed with me, I am with my employer for putting me in this position and my employer resents the battle I fought with him over the issue. I am sure its a story repeated many many times each year throughout the TA.

    That to me is why the law needs changing.

    Cardinal
  2. Zero_Over
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    Zero_Over

    If the essential requirements of TA service were put on the same footing as Jury Service, for example, that might be a good thing.

    There's a risk that employers will view TA soldiers as a liability rather than an asset though - and there's always your statutory minimum 28 days of annual leave from your main job that you can use for your TA training.
  3. Hector_Chavez_V
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    Hector_Chavez_V

    Great for small business owners though eh? The lad who did all our electrical works has 10 on his books and 4 are TA, fabulous situation for him eh if all 4 fuck off to band camp together at the same time?

    Get a fucking life, your a volunteer, you volunteer every time you turn up, I am assuming your super magic plan will extend to all those who have extra curricular activities? Those that coach kids footy/rugby? Them that do charity stuff? Those that play the trombone in the Sally Army band?

    If this law was passed then the risk is run that the majority of you will abuse it, throwing up a 9 x 9 and tossing it off for 48 hours does not give you the right to extend your middle finger and quote the law to your employer, the one that pays you monthly for doing your job, that gives you holidays, that keeps you afloat..
    mandown, Ravers, superjb and 6 others like this.
  4. ugly
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    ugly LE Moderator

    When the govt decide that we are at war you can be mobilised and there wont be an issue, till then you have to remember its a family/job/TA mix/commitment order issue and if you feel you are being victimised by your employer then you can fight them. If you are not contracted to do weekends then you can say no. However I suggest the simplest answer is a coup, replace the Govt with military men, declare martial law and mobilise the reserves.
    Oh wait, like thats ever going to happen, its called democracy and unless you become PM I suspect nothing will change.
  5. celticguy
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    celticguy Old-Salt

    No it doesn't.

    If you want to be a soldier, be a soldier. If you want a full time job in the private sector, then it's a full time job in the private sector. I've lost count of the weekends & evenings I've had to cover at short notice. It's life, deal with it. TA is secondary employment, it's not essential that you are a memb er, it's something you volunteer for in your spare time Same as St Johns ambulance, scouts or marshalling. Read your employment contract, it probably mentions that your primary responsiblity is to your employer, not to the TA.
  6. waitout
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    waitout LE

    Err no.

    Just because you have to work for your employeer doesn't require a change in the law.

    What has you PSI got no Matt 3 trained people?

    You'll talk yourself out of employment if you want laws enforced so you can attend weekend training?
  7. ugly
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    ugly LE Moderator

    Thats a NO then mate, off to work you go or you could go sick, by the way employment tribunuals take years and there isnt much work outside at the moment!
  8. Zero_Over
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    Zero_Over

    That's quite a definitive no if I've ever heard one. Use your annual leave like other people do, or organise your life a bit better. People have been in the TA for quite a long time without needing legal protection.

    Can I suggest buying yourself a diary? That way you won't agree to work when you have a TA weekend.
  9. RP578
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    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    There's a truth in this that would make compulsion transform TA soldiers into undesirable employees. I did my tours when I was self-employed and my last tour pretty much killed off my business and I looked for a new career; but that was my choice and a choice self-employment allowed me to make.

    I remember a couple of years or so ago, getting into an exchange on here with one poster (who himself had mobbed and deployed as a STAB Inf type) who said that he would actively discriminate against a TA soldier in his small business. I questioned his sentiment etc., but could see his logic. More to the point if fellow STABS who have gone through the ringer themselves take this attitude, what do we really expect from other small business people? There's got to be some form of carrot along with the stick.

    The USNG and Reserves are always trumpeted on here as a model to aspire to, but I wonder what problems they encounter (if any). Does the US Government give a preferences to firms which hire reservists or ex-servicemen? Do most reservists work in the public sector rather than in small businesses?
  10. "This is why we need change" ... get over yourself for fucks sake. Exactly what bad things happened as a result of your employer deciding it wanted you to work a weekend ? (And, incidentally, help keep them in business and you pay your bills.) Nothing, your PSI jiffed someone else. That's hardly a compelling argument is it ? If your weekends were spent on tasks directly supporting ops and which wouldn't get done otherwise you might have a point.

    This is a good illustration though of the very real problems inherent with rejigging TACOS to enforce attendance. It will turn TA members into de-facto liabilities for many employers. You can try to compensate for that with discrimination legislation but that will only go so far.

    As for your PSI, if he doesn't get that these things happen then he's a bit of a tool. Just wait though, he'll be gone before too long.
  11. OldSnowy
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    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    No it doesn't. I was in the last review of it, a few years ago, and there was absolutrely no requirement for it to be changed. TA is a hobby, a paid one true, but that's all it is - it is NOT your job. If it were, you'd be in the Regs.

    The prioity always has been, and always will be, Family, Work, TA. If you don't do that, one of the the three (usually two, in my long experience) will go horribly wrong.


    Final point - employment law is controlled by the Dept of Employment, not the MOD - so do't go blaming them for it :)
  12. Hector_Chavez_V
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    Hector_Chavez_V

    BT are a prime example, if I'm correctly informed a sigs det in the North West was chocca with stab flaggies who got to go out and play whenever they wanted.

    The OP is a fucking girl who is upset that he didnt get to toss it off for a weekend in the sun and had to do his job on a weekend, is it not family, work then TA? His proposal is no doubt making other Gareths cringe as they read it.
  13. jeromesausage
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    jeromesausage

    Gareths!!! that has made my day HC5.
  14. ugly
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    ugly LE Moderator

    BT do support a number of spec TA scalies, my neighbour is a Tp Staffy with them and despite BT struggling and all jobs up for grabs he still gets sent globetrotting and is almost a poster boy for the sponsored TA.
  15. Bravo_Bravo
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    Bravo_Bravo LE

    Can I suggest you read what he said before you gob off?

    Or have you read it, but failed to understand ?
    smudge67er, Chef and Flaggie like this.

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