Serious Organised Crime Agency

Discussion in 'Int Corps' started by Danny_Dravot, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. You know what? I was still convinced that you were a journalist right up until the point where you mentioned a verifiable source. In a country where the media drives a large amount of the news and the public is happy to accept any old scare story, as long as it comes from "a well-placed senior source", I didn't know we did verifiable source. Say what you like about the Yanks but at least the people they get their scare stories from are expected to put their name to the story!

    As for SOCA, there is a great deal of rumour about what will occur post May 6th!

    ...........and as for UKBA? :D
  2. You ever watched The Wire? In the fifth season there is a great example of a journalist making up quotes and sources etc. He kind of gets busted for it, but in the end he gets away with it.

    You think the tories will restructure SOCA and UKBA? To what effect?
  3. SOCA? Don't make me laff. Totally ineffectual bunch of people with no operational experience in senior management at investigating anything except their careers.
    The early decision to go away from the RCS/NCS model (which worked) as in Detectives investigating crime and criminal activities (as they always have) to the positive decision to recruit large numbers of Cussies/Immigration/VAT inspectors was not the best move in starting up a new crime investigation agency.
    Non Detectives trying to do a Detectives job and failing abysmally. There are some good guys and girls on the ground, a very small percentage outnumbered by the Terry Fcukwits out of their depths allegedly running operations.
    That's my 5 pennorth worth and rant over! If it ain't broke don't fix it!!
  4. Couldn't agree more. I worked in the ID, which then became the NIS in a support role. There were a few people who knew what mattered and did exactly what was required to nail the smugglers and VAT fraudsters and nothing else. They had a near 100% conviction rate, because they could grasp the fundamental facts of an offence and present it powerfully and lucidly in court in a manner a jury could understand. There were many others who could not/would never ever grasp the ingredients of an offence, and when poorly presented evidence inevitably resulted in an acquittal, trotted out the stock excuse of a 'perverse jury' and management shrugged their shoulders and moved on to the next debacle.

    There were also a few who indulged in lies and perjury. These people were instrumental in the downfall of HM Customs, especially after the Simon de Danser incident, London City Bond and Operation Stealer. Utter farces, lies and incompetence that was a monumental embarassment for the entire department.

    Whilst the NIS was not properly managed (I noticed a lot of petty micro-management, which could be construed as bullying in my time with them) it also grew far too fast and corporate experience was stretched far too thin. It then started recruiting people who were really frustrated cops who grew up on a diet 'The Professionals' and 'The Sweeney' and really were 'police walts'

    I feel sorry for anybody who has to work with these sort of officers. I was heartily glad to see the back of them when my transfer came through.
  5. I don't know you fella, but if none of what I have said has any resonance with you, then I am also pleased that you have gone to the UKBA. For years I was told that the HMC&E ID was the best job outside the INT CORPS. When I got there I found that it was almost entirely full of people that hadn't landed a straight job in five years, did not know one end of a briefing from another, but despite that thought that they were in fact the Sweeney, could not react to changes in law, but were never individually responsible for any of the problems that ensued. Do you really think that if it had been allowed to carry on in the form that you remember it would still exist at all?

    I hate what has happened to all the organisations that are supposed to be dealing with "serious organised" crime. The only winners have been the criminals and the Senior Management of each precursor mob.

    Personally, I feel HMRC is an organisation that has staggered like a drunk from the cases you mention above, to the SOCA demerger, to the HMRC merger. It is not able to lift it's head and make a serious attempt at investigating much at all these days. That hurts a lot, it has never had time to get over one disaster before another came along; but when I look at the reports and judicial findings that started it all, it is clear the self-important, haughty, elitist ID had a big hand in it. As there were only a handful of you in the super-duper ID, you either took part in the complacency or turned a blind eye to what you knew was going on.

    None of this would have been down to you I suppose, you would have been too busy knocking Cocky! :)
  6. Give your head a wobble you French Cnut :eek: Times move along.
    Folks that felt that the Met Police terms and pension conditions were not to
    their liking are long sorted................ as an example.

    The system moves as designed you cynical bicycling cnut :eek: :eek:
  7. Sadly (as I know some of the people in there) I was somewhat shocked to hear a briefing today from a number of highly credible men and women who have had much to do with SOCA over the years, whose opinions of the structure, ethos and professionalism of the organisation's management was as dismissive as any I've ever heard about any organisation. They were, believe me, separately and collectively utterly contemptuous. The only positive thing about the brief was their opinion that things are slowly closing the gap now, but unfortunately some of the opinions voiced above ring very true - I can't hold an authoritative opinion myself, having had nothing to do with them, but I certainly trust the views of the group I heard today. Apparently it's all down to a few movers and shakers who have signally failed to either move or shake.
  8. I was never an ID investigator and thus not in the former group. If I had been I would probably be even more bitter than I am today! I was only there for four years and went there on the promise of plenty of overtime from a London excise office (and never got any!)

    I worked in support roles, did a bit of custody, QW, some technical equipment support and even photography. On more than one occasion, I was asked to do things that were illegal or write things in statements that were effectively perjury. Because I refused to risk my career and 12 years in chokey, I wasn't seen as 'one of the boys' and this leaving a sour taste in my mouth, I was dead set on moving out of the ID/NIS after only a few months in the post!

    There were a few people I had a lot of respect for as investigators, but there was a significant number who were 'guaranteed aqcuittals' for any case they investigated and utterly toxic for the teams they worked on and the dept as a whole.

    The ID was never perfect, but it had a good enough record in taking drugs off the street, but was not so good at the financial side (but then, even the SFO looked lacklustre at the time) This weakness was exposed in the LCB case. If it hadn't been broken up would it be any better today? Who knows.

    As for the unit tossers, did any go by the initials JO, PG, AS or JW?

    (And if you know where PG is, PM me, he owes me £20!)
  9. Now I'm just puzzled. You started off in this thread talking about transferring from HMRC to UKBA, but you only served with the ID (in support) for four years, an organisation that ceased to be 15 years ago.

    Yet, you have made it clear that you believe a job you did not actually do, is not being done as well as when you didn't used to do it.

    So sure are you of this position that you have offered sympathy for anyone that has to work with the people that now do the job that you never used to do!

    You are dissembling somewhat, but no matter, I have met many bitter, passed over admin staff that believed they could do a job they have never trained for, nor in fact, ever, actually done!

    You weren't "one of the boys" but apparently you also weren't man enough to blow the whistle on Officers engaged in illegal activity or conspiracy to commit perjury. HMRC can be run through the mud by people who actually have done the work, or who stopped doing that work and have gone to SOCA. I do not think you are in any position to pass judgement at all!

    For anyone else reading this, I am disappointed to report that while I have witnessed many examples in HMRC of bad management, under resourcing, and lack of vision, I have never witnessed Officers engaged in criminal activity, nor conspiring to do so. I would have reported them to the appropriate authorities if I had!
  10. LCB case.What a fcuk up!
  11. A guy goes to SOCA to apply for a job.

    The interviewer asks him, 'Are you allergic to anything?'

    He answers 'Yes - caffeine'

    'Have you ever been in the services?'

    'Yes,' he says. 'I was in Iraq for two years.'

    The interviewer says, 'That will give you 5 extra points toward employment,' and then asks, 'Are you disabled in any way?

    The guy says, 'Yes .....a bomb exploded near me and blew my testicles off.'
    The interviewer tells the guy, 'O.K. In that case, I can hire you right now.

    Normal hours are from 8 AM to 4 PM. You can start tomorrow at 10:00 - and plan on starting at 10 AM every day.'

    The guy is puzzled and says, 'If the hours are from 8 AM to 4 PM, why don't you want me to be here before 10 AM?' '

    'This is SOCA,' the interviewer says.

    'For the first two hours we just stand around drinking coffee and scratching our bollocks, not really any point in you coming in for that.'

    Pass my reversible windcheater and "Rosie" over will you? I need to catch the next ferry back to Portsmouth
  12. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
  13. Quite.
  14. Harsh but fair
  15. I was deeply involved in this matter.The dept heads want fcuking for this!