Nimrod review reveals failures

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by ABrighter2006, Oct 28, 2009.

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  1. lsquared

    lsquared LE

    It is getting worse: if it can get worse for the bereaved.

    A witness has minutes ago, on the government's own BBC Radio 4, just dropped a bomb-shell.

    Be ashamed Brown you lump of unelected rubbish, be very ashamed!
  2. old_n_fat

    old_n_fat LE

    OK I'll bite, what was the bombshell?
  3. Dogwalker

    Dogwalker Clanker

    I lost a good mate on XV230. RIP lads. No ammount of ministerial appologies is going to bring them back!
  4. Mr_C_Hinecap

    Mr_C_Hinecap LE

    Rubbish. I sat on a Safety Review Board only a few weeks ago and was, and continue to be, impressed with the professionalism of the safety specialists around me. I am confident in their abilities and attention to detail.
  5. MrPVRd

    MrPVRd LE

    The report, and the reaction, is astonishing. Groundbreaking stuff.

    This will not end here.

    - Those named and shamed should be considered for court-martial or corporate manslaughter prosecution.
    - Those who are named and shamed and are engineers or other professionals should be stripped of their chartered memberships.
    - BAe should be allowed to go to the wall: no more SFO style government protection. That revolving door between the military/political world and the arms industry needs to be shut.

    As those under the microscope for their failures kick and squirm, the government and the lamentable funding of defence will be dragged into the spotlight, making this a political issue at last!

    I think the report was only possible because of the many instances of MoD failures highlighted at inquests over the last few years. A few years ago, a whitewash may have been in order but now enough is enough. Sounds as if there has been a lot of candour in the inquiry process, with plenty of witnesses stepping forward.
  6. oldfart

    oldfart Old-Salt

    Bollox. You are deluding yourself.
    Care to decalre your postion? This unquestioning "confidence" in the Safety Review Board is exactly what led to the Nimrod disaster.
    I've worked inside IPT, for a Consultancy and a Prime Contractor - I refused to accept responsibility for managing a Safety Case as the ILSM for an IPT was because I had no formal training in Safety Management and I was put under severe pressure from the IPTL for doing so. In the end an SO1, who obviously had better career prospects than me assumed the responsibility.
    Feel free to PM me the project and the players and I'll tell you whether you're being misled.
  7. Le_addeur_noir

    Le_addeur_noir LE

    Shades of the aftermath of the Chinook crash in 1994,here.
  8. SkiCarver

    SkiCarver LE

    Unforunately, those most responsible, blair, brown and the defence secretaries will not see any nagative consequence other than politically.
  9. bakersfield

    bakersfield Old-Salt

    Aintworth stated on TV that two officers had been moved. What he didn't say is that one of them was promoted (to Air Commodore) and shortly after the crash became responsible for - wait for it ........

    Head of Air Systems
    Ministry of Defence

    2006 — Present (3 years)

    Provided governance framework of Policy, Rules and Standards to assure the airworthiness of aircraft and helicopters acquired or in use by the Armed Forces, and the quality of products and services procured by the Ministry of Defence. Leadership of a 350-strong organisation (predominantly civilian), dispersed geographically throughout the UK.

  10. Le_addeur_noir

    Le_addeur_noir LE

    Dan dare flew the last available hour out of every Comet available on the civil market.Even the old Airtours ones.I think the 5 Comets from 216 Squadron went to them for spares when Labour axed this squadron in the 1975 defence cuts.
  11. Toxicseagull

    Toxicseagull On ROPs

    didnt ainsworth state they had no say over airworthiness in their current positions?

    ............seems like they cant stop talking absolute bullshit
  12. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    There was a Comet operating out of Farnbourgh in the '90's
    It was at Akrotiri in '94 and was listed as a Comet if I can dig through some photo's I'm sure I've got one of it
    It p1ssed fuel everywhere as fast as they were pumping it in it was runnimng out of it
    The SNCO Fireman was doing his nut as he had to keep washing the pan :D
  13. oldfart

    oldfart Old-Salt

    Oh really I'm so far off the mark?
    You selectively edited out of my post:
    My humble opinion? Selling QinetiQ and forcing them to compete for MOD safety case work effectively castrated their ability to "die in a ditch" over a safety case. The few that do are labelled as "dogmatic" or "paranoid".

    How come chapter 24 (which I hadn't got to at the time of posting) says:
    The sale of the greater part of the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency (DERA) to private interests in 2001 (to form QinetiQ) put the substantial knowledge, advice, and support of DERA behind a commercial wall. This fundamentally changed the dynamics of the relationship on both sides. QinetiQ (formerly DERA) management was henceforth responsible to its private shareholders to garner business and profit. MOD entities could
    henceforth only gain access to the invaluable ‘brains’ and expertise of former DERA employees on negotiated commercial terms.

    Oh and from Chapter 27:
    “if you think your organisation has a good safety culture, you are almost
    certainly mistaken”

    Fukcing wake up and smell the coffee!
  14. Le_addeur_noir

    Le_addeur_noir LE

    I think this was from Boscombe Down,A bit of a fanfare when it it did it's last flight a long while ago,IIRC.
  15. slipperman

    slipperman LE

    Fascinating Report and respect to the author and his support team. What sticks out for me is the following:
    1. BAE got the biggest kicking and it was stated they were in breach of contract - a legal opening for the relatives perhaps? Mr Haddon-Cave was scathing about their subsequent efforts (or otherwise)to produce the 2nd Safety case. Pleased to note one of his recommendations is that BAE should repay the MOD in full for costs charged for the 2 safety cases.
    2. The Nimrod IPT also got a kicking, but I could sympathise to a certain extent as they were almost certainly overworked and under-resourced at the time (20% savings directive from the head of DLO ffs!). It will be interesting to see how the MOD resolve one of his other recommendations to ensure military personnel in IPT's are not double hatted and should ideally not turn over every 2 years. Similarily, the issue of poor or non-existent PDT for new military staff must be addressed as it is prevalent throughout DE&S.
    3. I imagine both of the two previous 4-stars at the head of DLO (as was) criticised in the report are now well retired? I know General Sam is; therefore probably untouchable - they were only implementing Government policy in any case. To suggest they could have rebelled or retired, is ludicrous.
    4. What part of the MOD budget is going to be "adjusted" to underwrite the new MAA?

    RIP to all those aboard the Nimrod flight.