Dodgy Minister defends useless Snatch vehicles

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by naguere, Apr 30, 2006.

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  1. It is indeed possible to by-pass the system with a UOR but, in a politically contentious issue, this is not a career enhancing move, unless you have friends in high places.
  2. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Just for a change Richard, a post not banging on about how short sighted 'buy British ' procurement directives to save Labour constituency votes have cost lives.....or telling the British Army to throw away its L85A2's and buy go with the F-16's overhead and the M1A1's growling thirstily in the background.

    Most of the IEDs are not a few ounces of PE4 in a plastic casing......ever seen a 155mm shell go off? Now think of the hole 4 of them wired together make....a bang big enough to spin a 2 tonne vehicle 180 degrees on its axis....

    Casspir and its earlier ancestor 'Buffel' have been around since the Namibian conflict in the 1990s....the site you quote is tied to the manufacturer.

    It may well be the mutts nuts on the veldt - but does it fit how we operate ?
  3. Guys,

    Watch your OPSEC please. SNATCH is still operating in theatre - good or bad and whether we like it or not.
  4. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer


    Mister Speaker , I think the gallant and Honourable gentleman opposite may have mistaken the dimunitive but upwardly mobile Noble Lord for my good friend Swiss is, the Right Hon Secretary of State for Defence Mr Des Browne ...allow me to correct his entirely understandable error with this image...


    Le Chevre
  5. Anyone may venture an opinion - even those without first-hand experience.

    However, I believe that such opinions should be caveated as such - the opinion of a researcher; not a professional in the field. Otherwise to make sweeping statements about what 'we' need can be extremely misleading. To then attempt to defend such a position with unrelated or grossly outdated experience is simply ludicrous.
  6. His point is that these methods are not being used - hence it is very difficult for anyone serving with HM Forces to have any practical experience.

    IMHO he is dead right. I cannot help but think that we (the British Army and the command structure in particular) accept a limited number of IED fatalities as the price of doing our job. Too little thought has often gone into route planning, anti-IED observation matrices, alternate route creation, use of consolidated convoys, unnecessary journey restriction etc.

    The Snatch issue is a red herring. Sure it would be nice to have better armour. When we do, the bad guys will up the explosive power of their IEDs. We could be doing a lot more to counter the IED threat ourselves.
  7. No - not at all the same thing. I was referring to Richard_North's suggestion that because he complete a two-week RE course (however many decades ago?) he is suitably qualified as an expert on the current threat to UK troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    If you re-read my posts, I asked him if he had "any first-hand experience of...[humint, armoured vehicles, technical countermeasures, UAVs, environmental exception mapping and use of light helicopter assets] (in current operational environments), or is your information second/third hand?"

    He doesn't - instead he cited unrelated (and in the case of the RE course) grossly outdated experience.

    I have no problem with researchers/journalists stating opinions - so long as they are clearly presented as such.
  8. Without compromising anything, can someone explain how an IR trigger isn't set off by vehicles other than military ones, or by pedestrians etc
  9. I am afraid you appear not to understand how the UOR process works.

    Turning to the question in hand, South African solutions have limited utility for us are they are designed for a particular enviornment and threat. As noted above in earlier posts the Israeli solution to the current urban RPG/IED threat is uparmoured M113s. Interestingly it is an approach the Americans are following as are the Australians. We are of course being stupid and re-engining and uparmouring our FV432s to replace SAXON.

    Finally can I suggest to the MODs that any discussion regarding IED triggering mechanisms cease.

    (edited after red-inking myself)
  10. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Right-click the image in his last post and look at 'Properties' leads you to Richard's anti-EU website. He is a fervent Atlanticist with an agenda.

    Now, whilst I may agree with much he says and feels about the Great-Satan-That-Is-Brussels :pissedoff: , he is not exactly an impartial witness on equipment issues.....if you do View Posts in his profile you'll get the picture.

    ( oh, and justifying an argument with..." yeah...and I've got a PhD " has been memorably described elsewhere on this Board by brainier uber-geeks as 'intellectual peacocking".... )
  11. I think that we are in agreement?
  12. agreed in principle, although who are you trying to conceal this knowledge from? the insurgents already know how to do it; it's some of our guys who are in the dark about the methods of initiation!

    reminds me of when i had to teach the Palestinian Authority how RCIEDs worked. now THAT was a tongue in cheek lecture :)
  13. I did not raise my qualification until my credentials were challenged. Under those circumstances, I am entitled to defend myself, and members of the board are entitled to know something of the person who is arguing on the board. That hardly qualified as "intellectual peacocking".

    And yes, I do have an agenda - your point is? Yes, I do want procurement funding directed at the here and now, saving the lives of operational troops and not dedicated to some fantasy army for the European Rapid Reaction Force. It is about time some of the forum members here grew up and stared looking at FRES seriously, and how it relates to the ERRF. They might also ask how lightly armoured, air portable vehicles are going to fare in counter-insurgency environments, when situational awareness is nil, until the nasties draw their weapons, and whether so far theoretical "defensive suites" are actually going to work in practice, in combat conditions.
  14. At the risk of thread creep, if the shaped charges are coming across the border from Iran who are also supplying the knowledge why don't the coalition just mine the border. The Israelis built a wall, that seemed to do the trick. The alternative is to effectively confine British troops to barracks or watch this steady loss of life continue unchecked.