Anyone know what these bits of webbing are, please? '58 + '39 pattern.

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by archaeologist, Jan 8, 2012.

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  1. archaeologist
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    archaeologist Swinger

    Hello,
    These bits have got myself and a few other collectors stumped as to what exactly they are.

    1) 1958 pattern, loop strap with clip, "MECo 1973" + 'black ring' mark.

    2) 1939 pattern (if it isn't Mule tack!?), 2inch wide utility strap with 3 bar buckle and loop on rear for 2 inch strap/belt at 90', "BHG 1943".

    Does anyone knows the exact purposes of these and/or where they went on the webbing, please?

    Cheers, Jim.
     

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  2. ancient_lbv
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    ancient_lbv Clanker

    '58 pattern: helmet clip?
     
  3. Nobby Sapper
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    Nobby Sapper LE

    '58 pattern loop looks about the size to fit on the web belt and the clip is the same as the poncho roll clips. Can be used to hold anything, map case etc.
     
  4. mandownmedic
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    mandownmedic Old-Salt

    Nice collection of strapons you have
     
  5. Shandy123
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    Shandy123 War Hero

    hmmm. They look like they would only clip to the belt alright, in lieu of the poncho roll. Unless maybe they are for the large pack rings on the front of the yoke?
    Can't imagine what they are for- I don't think I got them issued.
    Would the loops fit a 66?
    No, can't be- it'd hardly be quick access.
    Maybe for a shovel, GS?
    Nosebag?
    IWS?
    Mortar rounds, 81mm, in case?

    I give up.
    EDIT: found a diagram online. It seems to be in septic speak (eg 'fanny pack'), but is that the straps on the bottom of the ammo pouches? I forgot about those little D-rings, I think maybe we used them to help tie/bungee it all tight once assembled.
     
  6. Shandy123
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    Shandy123 War Hero

  7. Shandy123
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    Shandy123 War Hero

  8. Auld_Sapper
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    Auld_Sapper War Hero

    Eh?! Clip, Helmet !? WTF ?! The only helmet I recall from the era ( Helmet, Riot, N.I., which was really a Helmet, Motorcyclist, With Bits Added, 'Cos it was better than a steel tope with visor stuck there on) not with standing was a steel tope that you were issued with your webbing etc. when you joined your unit. The 'personal' part of your lid was the liner you kept with you to stop you getting head lice from the previous owner, and the liner attached by a 'lift dot' to a spike in the middle of said tope, was made of foam rubber covered in olive green nylon that fitted (closely) to the head and made you sweat like a rapist in a rubber mask.
    And ! There was no clips. At all. Only an elasticated strap. That was attached to the helmet. This was so that if you were involved in an explosion the said tin lid would not rip your head off.

    So there you were, sweating and itching like a sweaty, itchy thing, but happy that your head was secure should the dirty Soviet ******* sober up enough to pour over the Inner German Border and catch us sober enough to give a **** !!

    Believe it or not, but the helmets that we cold war warriors wore were actually 1944 Pattern, yes 19 ******* 44 ! and were refered to as the "lobster tail" helmet as they had a front and a back, the back being easily recognised as it was longer than the front. So what, no numpty could get that wrong eh!

    Hay ho, cue a meeting on the border in South Armagh, 1980-ish with a patrol of the Irish Army and the Gardia,

    Our side ?..The might of the British Army, Light Infantry, cammed up, tooled up,hunting for bear and backed up by an up armoured Saracen c/w an extra GPMG on the turret. Hawkeye thundering overhead and a section or the RUC DMSU or SPG, or whatever they were calling their "special force" at the time there as well.

    Their side ?.. One plod in an overcoat and cap, unarmed, whinging that he had to leave soon as his shift was nearly over and the might of the Irish Army in the form of a very silver painted Aluette helicopter with a **** of big Tricolour painted on the side observing things from about 30,000 feet and the Irish Army there in Series 2 Landrovers, OG trousers, wooly pullies and 1944 pattern helmets.On backwards.
    I kid you not. The whole patrol, officer included, with thier 44 patt helmets on back to front and trying to kid us on they were serious! Oh how we sniggered.
     
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  9. Auld_Sapper
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    Auld_Sapper War Hero

    As to the original question ?


    Erm.... dunno!


    Ubique ya bass.
     
  10. Rather annoyingly, I've a vague recollection of having seen the 58 pattern thingy and may even have used one (or two) - but can't for the life of me remember what it was for or where it went.

    So, applying a bit of logic...

    The clip is the same as on the top of the bumroll, which was used to fasten the bumroll to the belt. It's also the same as the clips on the side straps of the bumroll, used to attach to the ammo pouches (also the bottom straps of the large pack, clipping to the same place). The only other part of 58 pattern CEMO where the clip could attach is the D ring on the front of the yoke, but that seems unlikely.

    The web loop looks like the right size to fit on a belt - and there's only one belt on 58 pattern CEMO.

    So the most obvious guess is that the strap fits on the belt to allow something to be clipped to it. However, 58 pattern was cleverly designed. Everything had a purpose, nothing was fitted "just in case". The only item that I could imagine being attached to it in such a way would be a sword - but even then, there's no adjustment, so I very much doubt that it was used for that.

    Instead, I'd be looking at it being fitted to something else that has a belt-like attachment, with the strap being used to clip onto the rings at the back of the web belt to support some load. And the only thing I can think of is the GS Manpack. Two such straps could be fitted onto the lower backstrap of the ladder frame. The load on the Manpack would then be taken via the belt to the yoke which would be more comfortable than taking the load solely through the shoulder straps of the Manpack. It wouldn't be ideal (the straps would slide along the backstrap and the backstrap would ride up the frame), but as the Manpack came out in 1944 or thereabouts, it wouldn't have been designed to complement the 58 pattern system. The 58 pattern system could have been extended to provide replacement straps for the Manpack ladder frame that would better attach to the yoke and belt, but as far as I'm aware, it wasn't. Shame, really. It would have made lugging baseplate/barrel/bipod/ammo/ancills a lot easier.
     
  11. Just a thought. The clip is also the same as that on the SMG sling - which opens up a whole new world of possibilities...
     
  12. IndianaDel
    Online

    IndianaDel LE

    If I recall correctly, the top two were to attach the Poncho role to the ammo pouches, although bungy cords were surely a better option to stop shi'ite flapping about needlessly. I recall they were more use if said role was worn in the small of the back (where Pack axe helve or shovel was supposed to live), to attach said role to the kidney pouches vertically (again to stop shi'ite flapping about like a Chinese fireman).
     
  13. Hellmans
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    Hellmans LE

    Have seen them clipped top the front of the Sterling 'pistol' version of the SMG as a forward handgrip.

    I doubt that was their original use but probably adapted.

    Probably just a universal add on clip that rarely got issued as no fecker knew what they were.
     
  14. Hellmans
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    Hellmans LE

    Can't find a piccy of the actual one, but this is similar, albeit a crap civvy clip version

    Funnily enough they haven't included one with the deluxe Gold Sterling available whilst stocks last from Matalan.
     
  15. I agree MM. They were not bits of issued kit when I drew 58 pattern.

    Having said that, we were not issued bungie cords either, but we certainly went out and purchased some after our first run in non-bungied CEFO.
     

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