A400M

Discussion in 'Royal Air Force' started by armchair_jihad, Mar 10, 2009.

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  1. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    Oh I'm sorry. I thought we were discsussing the merits of the A400M in RAF service and UK national interests.

    If France wants to spend shed loads on the A400M, so be it. In fact, the more the merrier.
     
  2. Toxicseagull
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    Toxicseagull Old-Salt

    right, so our purchase to buy larger, better and more cost effective aircraft that were actually being produced so it can be put into service when we needed it is ok then?

    again, why didnt you wait for airbus to produce a CB-AEW then if "you would rather wait years than buy a US product today"?
     
  3. Except the systems on the ASaC7 are more capable than those on an E2…
     
  4. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    ARRSE alert!

    fantassin is discussing the suitability and cost effectiveness of the A400M in French service.

    Discussing its merit in UK service is thus irrelevant.
     
  5. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    So CdG had nothing to do with bombing Afghanistan in 2001-2????

    Hmmm!
     
  6. fantassin
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    fantassin LE

    Because when you need only three or four such aircrafts, it is not cost effective to start developing it ! Remember the Nimrod AEW ?
     
  7. fantassin
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    fantassin LE


    Yes, they are so effective that they currently are that close from being removed from RN service as a cost cutting measure...
     
  8. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    At what unit cost would you argue A400M is not cost effective?

    Or is that one of the projects which has no ceiling?
     
  9. fantassin
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    fantassin LE

    Look, I don't want to be pedantic but aerial bombardment and amphibious assaults are two different things in my book. And yes, CdG used its SEMs and Rafale on several cruises to do both CAP and CAS over Afghanistan.
     
  10. Toxicseagull
    Online

    Toxicseagull Old-Salt

    a400m isnt cost effective either. your whole argument has been based on that it props up a french production company and "isnt american" which is ironic considering its gone so badly wrong its now costing its parent company billions of its own money a year.

    oh and the rest of your argument that britain shouldn't have bought an superior american product that is actually available and works when it needed a capability which is clearly laughable.
     
  11. fantassin
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    fantassin LE


    No ceiling would be pushing it but I'd say it needs all the support it can get until the capability is there.

    When Airbus started taking on Boeing on the civilian market, everybody said it was madness; I think we are now in the same position; it'll take time and money, it'd be nice if it was already there, but we'll get there and Europe will ultimately benefit from it.
     
  12. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    Well, you mentionned US colonial adventures in the plural. The only difference between UK and French foreign policy efforts over the past 20 years is Iraq. And the greater part of UK effort at that time was land based not amphibious. Indeed, it's original mission was to in from Turkey.
     
  13. I don't care about an independent EU manufacturing capability anymore than I care about Boeing, BAe or any other large company. I care about British Forces getting equipment that's fit for purpose in a reasonable time for a reasonable cost. The A400 may well be fit for purpose, but it is neither reasonably priced nor will it be in service in a reasonable time.

    Neither do I care about buying American. I'd be quite happy to ask Mr Antonov to sell us some of his lovely, massive air transporters if the price was right and they could be delivered at some point before the war causing the major need for them ends.

    It's not up to the RAF to prop up European multinationals by ordering over expensive products that can't be delivered when they should be.
     
  14. whitecity
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    whitecity LE

    Sorry. That's a political cop out that leads to COMPLETE financial disasters such as Nimrod AEW and almost complete financial disaters such as ... well ... just about every major European collaborative defence programme as well as purely national ones. The only difference with national, is that at least you can still rave about an independent capability.

    And that, frankly, has to be my greatest concern with the "European" (read EU) mindset: prepared to sacrifice commonsense for political illusion, smike and mirrors.
     
  15. But if British Airways have to wait a while for their new airplanes then it doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme of things. If the RAF have to wait then it could potentially cause deaths and will certainly degrade operational effectiveness.