Today I looked and read over an article twice just to make sure I was reading it correctly. This article is in the Focus Paper, September 2005, Issue 192, Page 8 and 10. The article is well written and is also believable,just one point lets it down, their figures aren't correct. It states that there is only 1 in 10 armed forces personnel homeless in England compared with figures from ten years ago which stated 25%. I have be on the net and got some figures just to show how very wrong they are. General Pxxxxxr ex RGJ and retired Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Personnel). Stated that the MOD's cooperation with charities such as Combat Stress,the Army Benevolent Fund and the Royal British Legion. They are working together under the apparently highly effective umbrella of the Ex-Service Action Group (ESAG). And the coalition is,it seems, beginning to make a real difference.
Where is this difference the figures at present stand at 30% to 40% Armed Forces Homelessness. The figures I will show are from the Mid-Ninties. Less than 10 years old, and if you wish to read more about the figures from 2000, then email me and I will send them to you.
With all these Charities and the pressure that the MOD can enforce on the present Government to change the current legislation on homelessness for the armed forces.

Key features of existing research on homeless ex-servicemen
Two major investigations into ex-servicemen and homelessness have mapped the overlap between homelessness and past service in the Armed Forces.

Falling Out (Crisis, 1994) and Homeless on Civvy Street (ESAG, 1997) placed homelessness among ex-servicemen on the public agenda and provided the long overdue catalyst for recent improvements. Figure 1 sets out the key characteristics of homeless ex-servicemen as detailed in those reports.

Figure 1 Key characteristics of homeless ex-servicemen

Proportion of homeless people who had served in the Forces:

Up to 30 per cent of homeless people in hostels, day centres and soup runs. 22 per cent of homeless people surveyed in London on a single night.

Service background:

Only eight per cent had served as part of National Service 86 per cent had joined voluntarily

Length of service: 1994 1997

Up to three years 19% 44%
From three to six years 30% 26%
Over six years 51% 30%

Main reasons for joining Forces:

Active wish to join Forces 20%
Employment 16%
Leaving home/family pressure 14%
Adventure/to see the world 12%
Because friends joined up 10%

Main reasons for leaving Forces:

End of contract 78%
Health/disability 10%
Disciplinary 6%
Bought themselves out 4%

Clearly, there is no question that there is an issue which needs to be addressed Between one in three and one in five homeless people have spent some time in the Armed Forces. And compared to other homeless people, those with a service background are more likely to be male, older, sleep rough and to have been homeless and unemployed for longer. Specifically, homeless ex-servicemen are more likely to have been homeless for longer than non-Service homeless people.
Falling Out found that half of homeless ex-servicemen had been homeless for ten years or more, while Homeless
on Civvy Street found that 55 per cent had been homeless for more than five years, compared to just 30 per cent of non-Service homeless people. They are also more likely to have given up looking for accommodation, to have slept rough and less likely to stay in a hostel.

Over half of those surveyed for Falling Out (51 per cent) said they were not looking for alternative accommodation.
Homeless on Civvy Street found that nearly two in three homeless ex-servicemen (63 per cent) had slept rough in the previous 12 Months,
compared to 54 per cent of non-Service homeless people. It also found that only 59 per cent of homeless ex-servicemen stayed in a hostel, compared to 73 per cent of non-Service homeless people. At the same time, ex-servicemen are more likely to be successful at surviving on the streets, squaddies, after all, are trained to sleep rough – and less likely to take advantage of the support on offer. Over one in five (21 per cent) of those questioned for Homeless on Civvy Street did not require help, compared to only seven per cent of non-Service homeless people. Finally, they are less likely to have stayed with family or friends, where as one in two non-Service homeless people had done so before becoming homeless,only one in six ex-servicemen had. As for how they ended up in this situation, most join the Forces voluntarily (86 per cent), leave because their contract ends (78 per cent) and have no problems while serving (82 per cent). In other words, it is often difficult to map out the pathways an ex-soldier travels into homelessness. (By and large, they are soldiers, two in three homeless ex-servicemen have served in the British Army rather than the Royal Navy or Royal Air Force.) Certainly, little can be found when examining health issues. While 70 per cent of those interviewed for Homeless on Civvy Street had physical health problems, only one in ten was discharged from the Forces for health-related reasons. Drug and mental health problems are relatively rare too.

'hitback' Can you clarify a point for me? You wish to be housed in the area of your last posting. Not where your family come from before joining up? This to my mind should make no difference, but it clearly does.

I would refuse to give up your Married Quarter, and when HMG try to oust you, you become a local housing problem!
I purchased a house before my discharge so have no real personnel experience to add.....

Mike the real fact is it's not just me that is suffering from this discrimination,it's my family. There will be many other military families out there being treated just as bad if not worse.
I ask my local housing assocaition how much I would require to put down on a property to do the NEW government housing scheme,they told me I would require 90K or a morgage for that amount. I'm not able to get a morgage due to be disabled with a spinal injury and, the real prospect of not working full time again. All that said,why should a military family be treated with such disdain and discrimination,we pay tax's,we controbute to the social welfare system as well as the democracy of this country.
I feel it's time to bring this issue to a head,to many people in the past have been forced into chronic debt, which has distroyed their families and forced them to split up and go seperate ways. Those that have served their country should be treated the same, as those they have represented. Life is not fair,I don't believe it will be fair, for those that serve their country. However if a stand is not made it will continue to be unfair for those that have or are serving in the forces.

Originally Posted by hitback

Thanks for that "mereminx". .The transition between getting trained for your future employment in civilian street and housing, require to be put into the same pre-release package. The time period in which a person serves in the forces should go towards there housing allocation points,so if a single guy leaves the forces, he will have points towards accommadtion in civilian street.

Hitback I have a lot of sympathy with some of your issues and also hope your back gets fixed and you are duly compensated.

I also find myself in my last 2 years of service, I realised a number of years ago that when you leave the cosy services you find yourself in ruthless civvy street, out there apparently no one gives a toss about anyone else, its everyone for themselves. To that end I saved and have a house to move into.

I find it somtimes amazing that friends of mine that are mainly the S/Sgt, WO bracket are still dithering about in there cosy subsidised Army quarters or Sgts Messes and not planning for there future.

One conversation in particular with the wife of a WO2 who has just picked up his RSM left me baffled. They still havent looked into purchasing a house as they are relying on him picking up a commision, so they can continue living in cheap accomadation and spending there income on a comfortable life flash cars, holidays and designer clothes for there young son. What is a also changed is the final salary after 22 years in that years ago it was a good deposit on a house , these days it aint.

I realise that you have been dealt a bad hand with the injury but surely you must have realised several/many years ago that one day you would have to leave the comfort of the Armed forces and fend for yourself and need somwhere to live.

Although the avenue that you are following of letter writing to the hierachy and identifying other groups who shouldnt be entitled to housing its a sad fact that nothing will change no matter how many sets of wings/gongs or OP tours you have done or even if you was on the balcony. This isnt another situation that has just happened overnight its been going on for years and its going to get worse, no matter how many rants and raves we have in and out of the forces the bottom line is that we all choose to serve and should by now realise that we are not given any special treatment for our service.

I find it also appaling that after your commitment you are forced to have to beg to be housed in LA housing with all its problems, that are mainly caused by people and persons that havnt done a days work and dont intend to as long as the benifit cheques keep dropping on there doorsteps.

The way forward maybe to late for you and a part soloution is one that I tell the phase 2 soldiers that I train and that is to save as much cash as possible and get on the housing ladder asap no matter where in the country. You can also forget LSSAP as that comes to late for many.

If some of the so called "homeless" had saved and planned for the future then the situation of blaming the system for not providing housing wouldnt apply.

Your statistics ref ex forces on the streets are impressive but dont mention anything about some of them them wanting to live on the streets because they cant deal with civvy street, what course/counselling do you suggest the forces should give these people before they leave after 22 years to ensure they can deal with it?

Although I once again have some sympathy for some of those who are on the streets the underlying problem is that for many they were institutionilised.Having 3 meals a day a roof over there heads and not having to worry or deal with the many issues that go on outside of the barbed wire.

You could quite easily blame the forces for this but its a 50/50 thing, why dosnt everyone whos ex forces end up on the street?

Why do so many ex forces do there time and live happily ever after? (In a house that they have realised they will need, saved and made sacrifices for)

So good luck with your issues, this isnt a snide snipe from the sidelines, I have genuine sympathy for you, this situation shouldnt occur but it does and has and will do even more in the future as the housing prices soar, and for any week 1 day 1 crows reading this forget about splashing out on all that guchi go faster kit and start saving to get yourself on the housing ladder asap or face a bleak future.

Harry great point well put. I had endowments and I was told this is the way forward for military people that dont no where they wish to live. The great saving plan for the future!
I looked into housing just before my injury in 2001,I would of had 5 years left to do,I had savings and I asked the morgage company how much I could get on my wage packet.I was informed the max I could get was 70K with my savings it was short by 40K. As you can see I have tried,however if I did have that morgage how the hell could I pay it of in this condition. With reference to compension, I will receive a war pension and my 22 year pension. NO lump sume for disability. I joined the forces because it was my life,my father served the same regiment for twenty five years. The best way for the issue of housing and homelessness to be addressed,is by teaching those that serve,they must invest money into property as soon as possible. The Government must also take notice of the issue,a prisoner that has murdered,raped or child molested would be housed,given a support network as well as welfare support. This is a crazy country and for to long it has been the wrong way around. We should be helping those that help others.

OK I am ex services as well, why should you get preferential treatment?
i have changed job several times since leaving the army, i cant just join a local housing list? so why should you expect to?.
I put my name on the council list approx 9 years before leaving the army, my local link? i didn't have one really as my father had been serving as well, until I joined up.
But I decided to settle where my parents were when my time was up. that was my link, i did have to wait for approx 3 months and i would have waited longer if i had not got the notice to quit quarter etc. do not expect anything from anyone that way you may not get disappointed.

I will continue to bite at the heals of the bureaucrats that prevent loyal hard working military personnel and their families being treated in a inequitable manner.

As you said our superiors have no interest in championing this issue on behalf of those that serve them,and, the country. The Focus Magazine I believe was their attempt to pasify this very serious issue. We have no grounds to complain or ask questions if they are seen to be trying to educate us! I just wish that those at the top could get their figures / percentages correct.

I have no doubt in my mind that I will continue to past from pillar to post bouncing around the chambers of our illustrious Government, however I will continue to press this issue as often as I can and until this legislation is changed.

Below is a reply letter I got back from the Labour MEP for this area. I have said over and over again, information and advice will not keep you warm. JSHAO, this office isn't able to change a thing in respect of my current circumstances.
This MEP never read any of the attached documents I sent to him,or he would of known that I had already spoken with JSHAO.


Rxxxxx xxxxxxxt MEP
Labour Member of the European Parliament for the East of England

Our ref: RH/AM

Mr N. Cxxxxx
16 Oxxxxx xxxx
xxxxxxxxx
Sxxxxxxx
Bedfordshire
Sxxx xXU

14th September 2005

Dear Mr Cxxxxxxx


Thank you for your email with attachments regarding your concerns about housing provision for Ex-Service Men and Women within your area.

I am afraid whilst I sympathise with your situation, I cannot intervene directly as in my role as your Member of the European Parliament as this matter does not fall under the competence of the European Union.

May I suggest that you also contact local Housing Associations within your area as Councils work in partnership with these organisations on the provision of housing. To find out the Housing Associations that have housing stock within your area, contact the Housing Corporation on
0845 230 7000 for an up to date list.

Also it may be beneficial to get in contact with the Joint Service Housing Advice Office if you have not already done so. For your information the address is

Jxxxxx Sxxxxx Hxxxx Axxxx Oxxx
HQ Lxxxx Cxxxx
Erxxxx Bxxxxxx
Wilton
Saxxxx
Sxx 0xxx

I hope that this information is of use to you.
Thank you for taking the time to write to me and I assure you of my best intentions at all times.


Yours sincerely


Rxxxxx xxxxxt MEP East of England Region




Labour European Office, Unit 3, Frohock House. 222 Mill Road, Cambridge CB1 3NF Tel:

canteen_cowboy. I am glad you got back onto this forum,firstly I dont wish to be treated any better than anyone else,in fact the point is I wish to be treated the same. If you read the facts above you will see that legislation stops me from being treated like YOU. I dont think you're thick you just like to argue with people. I was given a long time ago the following advice:You have two ears,Two eyes and one mouth,look and listen twice as hard as you talk.
Please if you wish to talk with grown ups then get your facts right. Local Connection point should not be a privaledge for only the civilian populous,but all persons that contribute to the country.

you come on here with your problems, but you do not want to listen to any view that is not in your interest. you have been in the HMF for a long time and have not sorted out the basics of housing with 5 years less to do?

you never thought that being in the army was dangerous and that you may get hurt and discharged?. and you call me names like I am the fool, your the one who has not been very grown up in this thing, I organised a place to stay for my family when my time was up, you didnt....end of. so stop your whinging and look after your family instead of asking/expecting your life on a plate because you served, thousands of us did serve. some of us have had rough times as well,some of us got over it.

Originally Posted by hitback

The Government must also take notice of the issue,a prisoner that has murdered,raped or child molested would be housed,given a support network as well as welfare support. This is a crazy country and for to long it has been the wrong way around. We should be helping those that help others.

Forget other people and what is right and wrong for them, They dont give a toss about you or your family, Just like the politicians and there double standards ,you have to remain focused on your issue which is "when I leave the Army i need to find a house for my family"

I cant offer you no advice as I havnt flown your slot but maybe some other arssers who have been there could. Maybe staying put in your quarter is the best bet, what about your missus and her home town does she have any claims?

Or if your a gambling man turf her out of the quarter with the kids she will have to be housed by said council?



Good luck anyhow