ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Which decade?

LR's have been obsolete since the 60's

Actually the 90's and 110's of the 1980's and 90's were pretty good by anybodies standards.

Can anyone explain why a Defender has to be redesigned but... say, artics are still on the road, as are coaches and other vehicles.

Originally Posted by jagman

Actually the 90's and 110's of the 1980's and 90's were pretty good by anybodies standards.

Yes and they are still pretty much the same now, other manufacturers have improved somewhat.

Originally Posted by jarrod248

Yes and they are still pretty much the same now, other manufacturers have improved somewhat.

It would appear we are furiously agreeing the point!
The current Defender should have been replaced in the late 90's but BMW then Ford never really had an interest in it

Originally Posted by jagman

It would appear we are furiously agreeing the point!
The current Defender should have been replaced in the late 90's but BMW then Ford never really had an interest in it

It's a simple design and would be dead easy to make massive improvement on it. The owners have always had to DIY them to make them fit for purpose. When they'd a 2 1/4 litre diesel the Toyota's had a huge diesel lump. The seats, driving position, leaks on the doors, engines, transmission etc etc

I have owned a Landrover Defender 110 (a 2001 300 TDI), and currently own a 17 year old Toyota Land Cruiser J80. Both were purchased for one reason: to complete a trans-Sahara rally (the Budapest - Bamako Rally).

Let's list the differences between the two:

LR: small engine diesel 4 pot with no power. LC 4.2ltr diesel straight six with bags of power.
LR: top speed on motorway, downhill with following wind: 120kmph. LC top speed 160kpmh, no matter what hill.
LR: pisses out lubricants and fluids from every seal, despite frequent repairs. LC doesn't leak at all. Ever.
LR: almost impossible to talk inside due to engine and wind noise. LC is nice and quiet inside the cabin.
LR: huge gaps between the door and the body allow sand, snow and freezing air into the cab. LC: airtight.
LR: fantastic off-road. LC is also fantastic off road (and better on sand due to more power).
LR: things break every single day. LC has no faults.
LR: electrics are extremely temperamental. LC has no faults.
LR: standard seats are extremely shit and uncomfortable after 5 minutes. LC seats are great and still comfortable after 1,600km in one day.
LR: panels are made of aluminium (no rust). Chassis rusts very well though. LC panels are made from steel, and after 17 years mine is showing 2 patches of rust at the base of one rear window. Chassis is in perfect condition.

Old Land Cruisers beat their equivalent Land Rover counterparts hands down in every department, most cruicially in reliability. From speaking to friends, and having driven a Range Rover HSE (last year's model), the electrics and reliability are still pretty gash. One lad has sent his back 3 times to have various rattles fixed (this in a car that cost him over 80,000 quid), and has left him stranded on a motorway twice. Land Rover / Range Rover are allegedly getting better, but still suffer from Friday afternoon lemons.

On the rally, my Landrover dropped prop shafts, had wheel bearings fall to bits, lose bits of bodywork, drop serious amounts of transmission fluid, burn lots of oil. It also had crap brakes. The LC had no issues, burned 5 litres of engine oil in just over 9,500km of off-road driving.

However I must say that Toyota appear to have dropped the ball on the new Land Cruiser 200: the dashboard simply isn't as strong as in previous models, so some of my friends are whining like hell because theirs now rattle after a couple of months of driving on rock desert.

Dear Dread. could not disagree with you more. Land crusisers might be fine in the dry but wet areas they die...A lot. Electrics are the main problem, though brakes come a close second and propshafts. Not a great fan of Birmingham but LR and RR I rate them.
I also find the series seating position just right.


N.B. Landie threads must be vying with falkland threads now for the total number of them.

Originally Posted by maccabonga

Until Landrover strengthen their axles Toyota will lord it over the rocks.

I know what you mean. I'm up and down rocks every fucking day on my way to and from the shops. Changing axles like a man possessed.