Thread: Modified Cropduster COIN Aircraft

There are plans to display a cropduster modified as a COIN platform at the Paris Air Show next month.

A new single-engine turboprop utility aircraft prototype will make its debut June 15-21 at the 2009 International Paris Air Show.

The Air Truck AT-802U, manufactured by a division of agricultural plane manufacturer, Air Tractor, Inc. of Olney, is marketed as a versatile aerial platform designed to perform counter-insurgency close air support and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions.

“The idea for the AT-802U presented itself when a customer approached us wanting a counter-insurgency aircraft,� Lee Jackson, design engineer at Air Tractor, said.

The AT-802U is based on the popular Air Tractor AT-802 agricultural plane, but is modified for a light attack capability against fixed, stationary and moving soft targets.

The AT-802U that will be displayed at the Paris Air Show will be configured with dual 12.7 mm GAU-19/A three barrel Gatling guns, M260 rocket launchers and representative MK-82 bombs.

However, it can also be configured to carry more advanced weapon systems, including the Lockheed Martin Hellfire II, DAGR laser-guided rockets, and Sniper XR surveillance and targeting pod systems.

Air Tractor hopes to sell to countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and smaller countries throughout Europe, according to Jackson.

“We envision the AT-802U for smaller air forces who are looking for a simple, very rugged design with few logistics,� Jackson said. “Maybe even one day the U.S. Air Force.�

Features of the AT-802U include ballistic glass and cockpit armor, self-sealing fuel tanks, rough strip low drag landing gear and an AMSafe Inflatable Restraint system integrated with a five-point harness.

This Air Truck is also equipped with the Wulfsberg Flexcomm tactical modular multibrand airborne FM/AM radio communications system, which enables the pilot to maintain secure radio communications with practically any radio system utilized by ground units.

According to Jackson, employment opportunities would become available if the AT-802U sold well at the Paris Air Show.

“We would definitely have to expand our operations greatly if we had a lot of buys and interest,� Jackson said.

The AT-802U is equipped with the AAR-47/ALE-47 countermeasures suite for defense against IR missile threats, has an infrared camera and a turret system with a secure video downlink that allows commanders to see the battle space in real time. IT can also be configured for an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance role at low and medium altitudes.

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/...econfigured-a/

http://www.airtractor.com/at-802f

^ second link to Airtactor Home Page for aircraft specs.









Meanwhile, the mighty Caravan, armed with Hellfires, fills the gap.

I have wondered why the RAF don't use a tooled up Tucano in Afghanistan, it would be cheaper than Apache or Harrier

Looks very much an un-dated Piper Pawnee. I remember that they used to be popular as crop dusters. They were mahoosively noisy however.....

An interesting thought, but my first look suggests ...

1. Tucano payload 1000 lb, and UK ac not fitted with hardpoints. Years of R&D, modifications, and COST. I note Air Truck payload is over 8000 lb, which is more than the Tucano's max take-off weight!

2. Robustness/rough field performance/costs?

Air Truck seems on first impressions to a neat idea for small Air Forces [and Army Air Corps ].

Originally Posted by tropper66

I have wondered why the RAF don't use a tooled up Tucano in Afghanistan, it would be cheaper than Apache or Harrier

Bring these I say:



de Havilland Hornet

Crew: 1
Length: 36 ft 8 in (11.18 m)
Wingspan: 45 ft (13.72 m)
Height: 14 ft 2 in (4.3 m)
Wing area: 361 ft² (33.54 m²)
Loaded weight: 19,550 lb (8,886 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 20,900 lb (9,480 kg[13][2])
Powerplant: Four blade, 12-foot (3.7 m) diameter "handed" de Havilland propellers: Two× Rolls-Royce Merlin 130/131 12-cylinder engines, 2,080 hp (1,551 kW) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 472 mph at 22,000 ft (760 km/h at 6,706 m)
Range: 3,000 mi (4,828 km)
Service ceiling: 35,000 ft (10,668 m)
Rate of climb: 4,000 ft/min (20.3 m/s)
Armament


4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano Mk. V cannons (with 190 rpg) in lower fuselage nose
2 × 1,000 lb (454 kg) bombs under wing, outboard of engines
8 × "60 lb" (27 kg) RP-3 unguided rockets


And made of plywood - no expensive fancy metals or carbon composites.

I am glad that it will only be carrying representative Mk 82 bombs :D

Wood is not a good idea in hot, cold, humid, places as the RAF found out in WW2, the glue used was not much good in the tropics

DH Hornet runs on petrol ... not a popular arrangement these days, especially with Loggies
Nice performance, but perhaps a bit too much for the task?
Airfield requirements?
Hornet operated successfully in Singapore during FIREDOG.
but ...
Air Truck still seems just ahead on payload.

Originally Posted by tropper66

I have wondered why the RAF don't use a tooled up Tucano in Afghanistan, it would be cheaper than Apache or Harrier

Fuck me are you for real? Would it be free to convert it to take all the bombs pods and other gubbins?
The main reason might be thats its only a training Aircraft.

From a CAS point of view.
Another might be that with a top speed of 300kts vs Harrier at 500 odd and GR4 at Mach 1.3 the Tucano would take a flippin age to get on station and would make it a tad easier to hit by some cunt with a RPG IF it was to go LL.

Originally Posted by tropper66

Wood is not a good idea in hot, cold, humid, places as the RAF found out in WW2, the glue used was not much good in the tropics

True, but they moved to using a synthetic glue towards the end of the war, which was far more effective. And we should take into consideration the advances made since then in syntheitc adhesives.

The engines would have to be upgraded certainly, but the jigs for the airframes still exist in New Zealnd.

The Hornet was used with considerable success in the Malaya Emergency.

In 1991 Shorts built a number of Tucanos as Coin aircraft able to carry up to a 250kg bombload with MGs or Cannon armorment 19 went to Kuwait as the MK52, the rest were sent to Kenya about thirty aircraft were built. The US Navy has recently got hold of an EMB-314 Super Tucano for the classified Imminent Fury programme and the PMC Blackwater have also got a number of the type for use in Afghanistan

Originally Posted by tropper66

I have wondered why the RAF don't use a tooled up Tucano in Afghanistan, it would be cheaper than Apache or Harrier

For the same reason the US stopped using the A-1 Skyraider in Vietnam: once the Bad Guys have MANPADS, stooging around low and slow behind a big hot engine gets very dangerous; and by the time you put the full DAS suite in to reduce that risk, the attraction of being cheap is disappearing.

(Time to get onto station is an issue too, if you don't have airfields near the fighting).

RAF Tucanos are only training but the Super Tucano is in service as a light strike/CAS aircraft with a number of users so new buy Super Tucanos are completely different. They can even carry Sidewinder and if you look on YouTube you can find videos of them shooting down drugs runner aircraft as well.

The USAF have also expressed an interest in either the Super Tucano or Beechcraft AT6 for a 'commando' air role, not sure if orders have been placed yet though.

I also understand a number of modified crop dusters have been used in a COIN role in South America where they do anti coca plant spraying plus the occasional rocket/gun run. Not very sophisticated, no precision stuff but as BS says the payload is significant although there are a million and one downsides as well.

Originally Posted by jrwlynch

Originally Posted by tropper66

I have wondered why the RAF don't use a tooled up Tucano in Afghanistan, it would be cheaper than Apache or Harrier

For the same reason the US stopped using the A-1 Skyraider in Vietnam: once the Bad Guys have MANPADS, stooging around low and slow behind a big hot engine gets very dangerous; and by the time you put the full DAS suite in to reduce that risk, the attraction of being cheap is disappearing.

(Time to get onto station is an issue too, if you don't have airfields near the fighting).

Interesting point: would there be a case for maybe using a Hawk derivative, such as the Hawk 200 models, used by the Saudis, Indonesians, Omanis and Malays.

The fast jet boys alrady have experience on type with the Hawk Trainers, so costs of re-training would be kept to a minimum.

Originally Posted by tropper66

In 1991 Shorts built a number of Tucanos as Coin aircraft able to carry up to a 250kg bombload with MGs or Cannon armorment 19 went to Kuwait as the MK52, the rest were sent to Kenya about thirty aircraft were built. The US Navy has recently got hold of an EMB-314 Super Tucano for the classified Imminent Fury programme and the PMC Blackwater have also got a number of the type for use in Afghanistan

Oh well if the world leaders in CAS, Blackwater have them that makes all the difference. Quick phone up Jock Stirrup and let him know i'm sure he will get it sorted