ARmy Rumour SErvice

It's shite

SAP - Service Attributable Pension (this is percenatage based)
SIP - Service Invaliding Pension (this is time served based)

Someone getting a 20% DWP of £29pw would also either get a SIP or a SAP. This would be dependant on length of service as you have to have served a minimum of 5 years to get a SIP.

A SAP for an OR3 at 20% = £2806 per year £215 every 4 weeks

But if the OR3 had served 5 years then they would get a SIP instead of a SAP as the SIP is higher £2969 or £228 every 4 weeks. But you don't get both.

Plus the WDP at £29pw = £116 every 4 weeks.

So as you say, Shite.

[EDITED]

Pension Rates as of 2008-2009
Pages 9-10 and 11

SPVA DWP rates as at April 2009 -2010
Page 3

Originally Posted by ALVIN

How the funk can anyone survive off £29 per week on a 20% war pension? To offer this sum to a disabled veteran is a funking INSULT You might as well offer nothing at all. ------- The minister for veterans should be funking hung

I can't believe I'm actually defending the very system I loathe but somebody needs to say something. At the moment, I'm not exactly sure which category you might fit into:

a. An escapee from an institution and/or somebody who should take his medication on a more regular basis.

b. A journo from the Watford (or any other crap town) Observer using ARRSE for a 'fishing trip'. Though I somehow don't think it's this option. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are far too good.

c. One of this lot : Clicky

d. Some sort of protest campaigning Walt with War Disablement Pensions being the flavour of the month. So there is still some hope for April.

e. Any of the above or something totally different.

Shall I tell you how you survive on a meagre twenty-nine quid a week? Shall I? Well fcuk it, I'm going to anyway. You get off your fat lazy arse and fcuking work. That's how you manage to make ends meet. At 20% it is extremely unlikely that a (physical) disability will stop you from working, it certainly didn't stop me. If it does and I say if, there are other benefits ready to be put in place to top up your income. Before you even start to question this, this is exactly what happened to me when I became too ill to work in 1996. But by then my disability had increased from 20% to 40%. I also know of several who received the minumum 20% pension or even the lump sum and they are quite capable of holding down a fulltime job and have been doing so for years.

As War Disablement Pension now affects other benefits (apart from that magic first tenner ), things are somewhat tighter and if monies paid were ever in fact generous, then now they're certainly not. I must admit the war pensioners I know are all physically disabled and I do know that for example PTSD sufferers can be left wanting. The system ain't perfect so please don't think I'm saying that. But the system such as it is, has kept my head above water since 1992. It wasn't an easy ride either as I've had to constantly fight for what I thought was rightly mine. Even after winning back Incapacity Benefit on appeal and then taking on the Veterans Agency (or whatever they're called this week) and again winning on appeal, I've had my fair share of the system applying the buggerance factor.

IMHO I think you are doing War Disablement Pensioners no favours. You continue to make wild unreasonable demands and demands that in the cold light of day have little or no chance of ever becoming a reality. You are giving false hope to some and getting right up the fcuking noses of others. I'm not an expert but looking at your posts, neither are you. It is nice that you have my welfare (and that of other pensioners) at heart but the 'help' you are offering is help I can certainly do without. If you still feel the urge to be self-righteous, please consider saving the Amazonian Rainforest and a part of it that has hopefully no internet access.

I was medically discharged 2006 after 20+ years of serving in the Army. I was discharged with having complex and chronic PTSD, the war pension, I received was 20% (£27 per week). I appealed this decision in 2006, and it took me until June last year, 2008 where I won my pensions appeal, and it was put up to 50% War Pension.

I haven't worked since I came out of the Army, and yes I do have mental health problems. But this doesn't mean that the organisation, what should have been looking after me can take the piss by giving me a war pension of 20%.

How can you lose your job and end up with a 20% war pension,I spoke with everyone at the time, the Armed Forces Minister, my local MP, the British Legion. Everyone who I thought could help me. I couldn't get any help from anywhere.

So yes, I personally feel the system should change and veterans should be looked after with a quality after-care service.

To

Mr Soft & The monster

In my view you are both correct in what you say. And I add that the SPVA are a bunch of swindling penny pincher's that are there to save the Govn't money.

Their system is slow, it kicks in at the last possible minute before discharge and no matter how much evidence that either you submit, or they have access to, they only really look at the one Doctor's report that is submitted to them by a washed out GP that is earning a bit of extra crust by doing agency work.

I imagine that pretty much most ex service personnel, regardless of condition, have the drive to push themselves out to work to make up their families income. The 'Can do' attitude that the Army relies upon to make up for all the other inadequacies that we face on a daily basis, both on the front line and at home.

Which is shite.

Why are the rates of all war pension allowences so low?

Oh Oh me me (hand in air, jumping around) I know I know.

Because the government of the day, any government of any day.
DO NOT CARE a fcuk about ex servicemen. Never did and never will.

Ask Mr Kipling (not the cake bloke. The other one)

Once you leave the service you are no longer useful and can be safely ignored and sidelined until you die.

Easy answer that one.

[quote="mistersoft"][quote="ALVIN"]How the funk can anyone survive off £29 per week on a 20% war pension? To offer this sum to a disabled veteran is a funking INSULT :!: You might as well offer nothing at all. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ------- The minister for veterans should be funking hung :!:[/quote]

I can't believe I'm actually defending the very system I loathe but somebody needs to say something. At the moment, I'm not exactly sure which category you might fit into:

a. An escapee from an institution and/or somebody who should take his medication on a more regular basis.

b. A journo from the Watford (or any other crap town) Observer using ARRSE for a 'fishing trip'. Though I somehow don't think it's this option. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are far too good. :roll:

c. One of this lot : [url=http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=119276.html][b]Clicky[/b][/url]

d. Some sort of protest campaigning Walt with War Disablement Pensions being the flavour of the month. So there is still some hope for April.

e. Any of the above or something totally different.

Shall I tell you how you survive on a meagre twenty-nine quid a week? Shall I? Well fcuk it, I'm going to anyway. You get off your fat lazy arse and fcuking work. That's how you manage to make ends meet. At 20% it is extremely unlikely that a (physical) disability will stop you from working, it certainly didn't stop me. If it does and I say if, there are other benefits ready to be put in place to top up your income. Before you even start to question this, this is exactly what happened to me when I became too ill to work in 1996. But by then my disability had increased from 20% to 40%. I also know of several who received the minumum 20% pension or even the lump sum and they are quite capable of holding down a fulltime job and have been doing so for years.

As War Disablement Pension now affects other benefits (apart from that magic first tenner :evil: ), things are somewhat tighter and if monies paid were ever in fact generous, then now they're certainly not. I must admit the war pensioners I know are all physically disabled and I do know that for example PTSD sufferers can be left wanting. The system ain't perfect so please don't think I'm saying that. But the system such as it is, has kept my head above water since 1992. It wasn't an easy ride either as I've had to constantly fight for what I thought was rightly mine. Even after winning back Incapacity Benefit on appeal and then taking on the Veterans Agency (or whatever they're called this week) and again winning on appeal, I've had my fair share of the system applying the buggerance factor.

IMHO I think you are doing War Disablement Pensioners no favours. You continue to make wild unreasonable demands and demands that in the cold light of day have little or no chance of ever becoming a reality. You are giving false hope to some and getting right up the fcuking noses of others. I'm not an expert but looking at your posts, neither are you. It is nice that you have my welfare (and that of other pensioners) at heart but the 'help' you are offering is help I can certainly do without. If you still feel the urge to be self-righteous, please consider saving the Amazonian Rainforest and a part of it that has hopefully no internet access.[/quote] Mr Soft, sir, No i can not belive that you are defending the war pension agency either, and no, i do not fall into any of your above catorgrys (thank god) I hate lazy people too, however, i belive the last thing a lazy person would do would be to join the British army :!: that a side, i live in the real world and i will fight the good fight for any veteran, how i can be acused of getting up any war pensioners nose, as you put it is beond belief, however i will get up government and m.o.ds nose with plesure. Do you like being poor? Do you like being supressd by the authoritys? Do you like to be looked down upon as a burden and outcast of society, swept under the carpet, and best forgotten about? some of us can not work due to our cu-cu minds, i myself have been officily classed as "demented" after serving my country! REMEMBER we never asked to be disabled, and we certanly never set the insulting pay rates! while the M.Ps of this country, who sent us to war, live it up with luxary items all claimed as expenses and payed for by the tax payer :!: If it wasent for veterans , their would not be a British government, so now you know! But please dont take my word for it ------- Notice what other veterans are saying on this subject :!: look forward to your reply :wink: ------------ So have i changed your opinion now :?:

Originally Posted by "ALVIN

Mr Soft, sir, No i can not belive that you are defending the war pension agency either, and no, i do not fall into any of your above catorgrys (thank god) I hate lazy people too, however, i belive the last thing a lazy person would do would be to join the British army that a side, i live in the real world and i will fight the good fight for any veteran, how i can be acused of getting up any war pensioners nose, as you put it is beond belief, however i will get up government and m.o.ds nose with plesure. Do you like being poor? Do you like being supressd by the authoritys? Do you like to be looked down upon as a burden and outcast of society, swept under the carpet, and best forgotten about? some of us can not work due to our cu-cu minds, i myself have been officily classed as "demented" after serving my country! REMEMBER we never asked to be disabled, and we certanly never set the insulting pay rates! while the M.Ps of this country, who sent us to war, live it up with luxary items all claimed as expenses and payed for by the tax payer If it wasent for veterans , their would not be a British government, so now you know! But please dont take my word for it ------- Notice what other veterans are saying on this subject look forward to your reply ------------ So have i changed your opinion now

Alvin I suppose I’m (sort of) defending the system as it’s all we have left but there's sadly a lot less left of it than there used to be. If nobody defends it, the bugger might disappear without trace taking our pensions with it. :( Even before the present political numpties came to power, the Tories were already tickling about with it. Labour were all too happy to carry on with the tickling and over the years, thresholds have been raised meaning fewer people are able to claim the extra allowances that can really make a difference. Now we find that apart from that magic tenner (so that’s obviously what they think we’re worth), the rest of the war pension is now taken into account. And you’re looking to them for more money? They are just biding their time ready to leave the place neat and tidy for the next batch of numpties. You ain’t going to get bugger all extra out of this lot and unless Cameron suddenly suffers from some sort of guilty conscience, you ain’t going to get bugger all extra out of him either.

As for the categories, you must fall under ‘e’ as you really are something totally different, as is your train of thought regarding war pensions and war pensioners. We’re not quite singing from the same hymn sheet but aren’t basically that different except that perhaps over the years, I’ve grown to be a bit more realistic. I’ve also fought so long that I must admit, I have at times just given up. It’s bad enough being ill but making yourself worse to (possibly) gain a few extra pennies sometimes just isn’t worth the hassle. If by lazy, you mean the sick, lame and lazy that HMG are trying to get back to work, then I’m with you there. But as a former REME Air Tech, there are some in the past, who have questioned my work output. Of course I didn’t think I was lazy, I knew I was just pacing myself or so I used to (frequently) say.

I think it’s all very well being up for fight but (I bet you’ll call ME lazy now) there has to be even the remotest chance of winning. It’s no good racing off like some sort of demented Chuckle Brother, making wild and unreasonable demands. I do think that collectively war pensioners have a chance of achieving something. But this must be carefully coordinated and any fight must be with those at the very top, not nipping at the heels of some lowly civil servant. I really think there should be an Association of War Pensioners. I don’t think there’s a need for a separate Association of Black and Asian War Pensioners but if they want to go their own way, then so be it. I’m not being ungrateful as the RBL and others put in a lot of work on our behalf but I think that we are more than capable of getting our own message across but as I’ve said, collectively and from within an officially recognized association.

You (briefly) got up my nose and I do know I wasn’t alone but I’m sure we all do at times which is why a former SSM of mine was nicknamed ‘Vic’ and he thoroughly deserved it. I’m sorry but not all war pensioners are poor. Some are there’s no denying it but there are those who use a war pension to top up a wage or a salary. Now if you’re saying that the pensions aren’t enough and the allowances aren’t enough (which you’ve previously said) then I do agree and if you’re saying that it’s scandalous that some war pensioners are caught in the benefit trap then I also agree.

Being suppressed by the authorities? A burden to society and a social outcast? It might be your own personal experience but it’s certainly not mine or any other war pensioner that I know. They might feel hard done by and somewhat miffed as do I but I do think this is the sort of thing that lets down your argument. It’s as if it’s been pulled off the front page of the Sun and if toned down somewhat, would have motorways bunged solid with outrage buses courtesy of the Daily Mail and its readers. Say it exactly how you feel ok but I do think that sort of talk doesn’t help the (or your) cause.

But all that aside, HMG are a bunch of robbing bastards, we as pensioners don’t get enough money but we’ll have to agree to disagree by how much. We each have our own particular way of doing things but it is a common cause. I hear what others are saying and some of those can’t agree either which is why I feel that an Association of War Pensioners could be a way forward.

Have you changed my opinion?
I don’t think so but you’re not getting up my nose so often though I still don’t want your babies.

MISTERSOFT. O.K, thanks for your reply, points taken. The "fighters" amongst us only have our best interests at heart for all our comrades in arms! We may be "DEMENTED" but we know what we are doing within our comunity is right and just, and we will protect those not able to defend themselfs. Take care, and god bless you sir. :wink: