ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by midnight

According to the NY Times the Yanks are sending a Company(who knows how many that is,14?) of `Tanks`to the Sangin area because of their heavy casualty rates so maybe we´ll see If the monsters can turn the tide for them?

Given that the vast majority of our own cas in that area were dismounted in close country, I doubt it.


it would be nice if something with recent experience could give us some perspective on this - are we losing out through lack of firepower?

I think the Yanks want to show that they´re not just going to poodle around and get blokes killed setting up the PB´s again and are doing what Tanks were originally develped for,breaking the deadlock and giving close support,they can´t trundle up ravines but they can put HE down over 3,000 metres away(and probably on indirect fire 10-15Kms!?)which means the grunts can advance and kill the Taliban before they disappear into the hills.I think they´ll use the Tanks to moniter key areas where the PB´s were(from afar If they´re not accessible) and to control the drug routes,anybody seen digging will get a nasty surprise and I´m sure the Infantry will love having some heavier armour to back them up.

No peace can be achieved in that area as long as the Taliban have `Ground Superiority´ie they can just walk in a terrorise the locals and bury IED´s a few metres away from the present positions.In the news article it also wrote that they saw a man towing a boat full of yellow plastic jugs that they use to put IED´s in,they´d been shot at and even though the guy towing the boat wasn´t armed he was killed too,no niceties or Court Martials a la´Booty Sgt getting kicked out for ´brutality´,just plain fcuking dead and onto the next one.

I can hardly wait untill Youtube comes up with the first video of `120mm Cannister VS Taliban creeping up on US Marine Post´;)

PS,the Germans are bringing one of these to their party in Northern Afghanistan,It can clear 15-30,000 Sq Meters a DAY,weighs 26 tons and costs about $1million,they´re also sending Weisels with ground reading radar to back them up.I don´t know If they´d be of help in Helmland. Mine Clearance - MineWolf Systems AG

edited for link.

Originally Posted by Gassing_Badgers

Given that the vast majority of our own cas in that area were dismounted in close country, I doubt it.


it would be nice if something with recent experience could give us some perspective on this - are we losing out through lack of firepower?

Within the last 12 months.

You cant drive armour without losing the hearts and minds and contravening the principles of CIED drills.
Its firepower in support of infatry cant be used because its hard enough getting a high trajectory round to hit baddies without worry about collateral, Firing main armament in direct role would be a headfuck for all the battlespace management blokes trying to overlay templates on mapping in close country.

You cant use armour - its optics are substandard to Javelin and UAV combo. Its main armament is impractical, its weight is prohibitive.
Yes it looks scary - the TB will avoid the scary thing making it redundant, its only purpose then being to take a stacked AT mine to the Underbelly and become a BG task to recover it.

Its firepower in support of infatry cant be used because its hard enough getting a high trajectory round to hit baddies without worry about collateral

120 Hesh fired from CR1 & Chieftain was quite an accurate thing in days gone by and I would suggest that collaterall damage from 500 & 1000 lb bombs dropped by air although accurate in delivery cannot be guaranteed not to have an adverse effect on things in the vicinity be they civi pop or their houses.

You cant use armour - its optics are substandard

WTF

Originally Posted by elovabloke

120 Hesh fired from CR1 & Chieftain was quite an accurate thing in days gone by and I would suggest that collaterall damage from 500 & 1000 lb bombs dropped by air although accurate in delivery cannot be guaranteed not to have an adverse effect on things in the vicinity be they civi pop or their houses.



WTF

dont argue with him he knows best, you must understand that any fool know that Javelin (man portable) has far superior sighting systems than a CR2 and somehow we must not believe that a CR2 can also use the info and feed from a UAV.

Only point I can agree with him on is that weight would be an issue and the current suite of ammunition is not ideal for the task. Clearly he does not like armour and feels it would get in the way of good old fashioned infantry action.

Oh and sadly it should be remembered that the last British soldier to die was killed by blue on blue with an F18 suppressing an enemy target with a 20mm vulcan gatling gun.

I was just surprised to read that CR2 optics are so inferior these days. Handy to have an expert around.

Weight is always an issue, ask the Kitchen Gestapo

Originally Posted by elovabloke

120 Hesh fired from CR1 & Chieftain was quite an accurate thing in days gone by and I would suggest that collaterall damage from 500 & 1000 lb bombs dropped by air although accurate in delivery cannot be guaranteed not to have an adverse effect on things in the vicinity be they civi pop or their houses.

I think what he's saying is that it's quite hard to get a flat trajectory round (even a 'less flat' HESH) onto the the bad guys without blitzing the crap out of whatever lies in between - which in the green zone, is quite alot.

It's a shame we never invested more effort at considering 120mm rounds for asymmetric ops - e.g. directional airburst fragmenting (think big version of XM-25). Or could a reduced propellant charge be used to fire a round at high trajectory? However, I think we as one of the few users of 120mm rifled would find a hard time getting this developed and fielded by ourselves.

Either way, it doesn't necessarily solve the issue of having having armour available when and where it is required. I understand the TB are quite reluctant to engage even our wheeled vehicles in direct-fire engagements, preferring to ambush dismounted patrols - and I can't see us able to deploy a CR2 behind every multiple on the ground!

Something interesting...

http://defensetech.org/2010/12/17/ma...#idc-container