I left the ACF as a 2nd Lt in 2006. I joined as a cadet in 1990. Back then it was common policy to travel to and from training areas in 4 tonners with a "CADET" board front and back (possibly swinging out the back on the rope as well). It always sticks in my mind the fun we had back then and the songs and such.
Even on Annual Camp we used to be fed by proper army cooks. Then it all went terribly wrong. We had to go everywhere by coaches and had catering staff brought in instead.
Seems like a bit of a moan I know but I really want to know what else other people have missed or that they wish hadn't changed.

mate the whole army goes everywhere on coaches and eats from civvy contract caterers, it's nothing ACF-specific.

I think what some do underestimate is how much more cadets enjoy green things. Take an adult soldier and say "we're driving to the training area, coach or 4-ton?" it's coach every time, sod sitting in a suspension-less box with exhaust fumes creeping in and hard seats. But cadets? The coach isn't green and armyish. They travel on those things at school. Cadets is all about not being at school. So they'll take the 4-tonner, because it's green and armyish and all that is good fun. It's the same with radios - take a Motorola walkie-talkie and a 349. The Motorola is longer range, smaller, lighter, better audio quality... all round better. Will they take it? God no. The 349 is green and an army radio. I even had cadets on camp queueing up to do overnight stags in the sangars. You'd never see the army doing that, it's a chore. But to the cadets, sitting up in the sangar overlooking the baron lands of Salisbury Plain, give them an LSW and a CWS and they're perfectly content with keeping watch... it's all part of the fun and far better than being asleep.

Obviously things like H&S have taken away some of the delights of days gone by, as has the bullshit and paper trails. But I think the subject serves to remind people that the ACF is about having fun ultimately, and that what makes it fun for the kids isn't necessarily a huge company attack with enough pyro to occupy Paris, but actually just chucking a load of cadets in the back of a tonner and driving it down a bumpy track can be just as good.

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

mate the whole army goes everywhere on coaches and eats from civvy contract caterers, it's nothing ACF-specific.

No, we still have military chefs. It's only PAYD facilities that are run by contractors, normally with a mix of civvy and military chefs depending on the location, we still also have Master Chefs etc.

Training camps are normally totally contractors however, though we normally take a chef or two to help out in the kitchen.

Originally Posted by crow_bag

No, we still have military chefs. It's only PAYD facilities that are run by contractors, normally with a mix of civvy and military chefs depending on the location, we still also have Master Chefs etc.

Training camps are normally totally contractors however, though we normally take a chef or two to help out in the kitchen.

Thanks for the heads up. Am I right on the coaches though?

I knew military chefs were still in fashion but was under the impression that most if not all kitchens were now at least operated by civvy contractors, even if the chefs therein are military employed.

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

Thanks for the heads up. Am I right on the coaches though?

I knew military chefs were still in fashion but was under the impression that most if not all kitchens were now at least operated by civvy contractors, even if the chefs therein are military employed.

Yeah it's pretty much coaches for everything, I believe there is a limit on the distance troops can be carried in TCVs, but someone more up to date on the transport side of things would be able to give more information on this.

As for the chefs it depends, my current cook house is entirely military (except for the pot washers) as it's not PAYD. My last place had military and civilian chefs with a SSGT who ran the kitchen but all rations are ordered through ESS and ESS were responsible for running the cook house (the cook house shared the kitchen with the NAAFI), manning the tills, kitchen porters and that sort of stuff. But this will vary from facility to facility.

I recall being on an ACF summer camp at Jurby IOM in the late 70's. We had civvy cooks then and it caused a riot as they were skimming the rations and taking home half the joints that should have been roasted and gave us slop stew instead. Cue one mouthy git from Huyton teling the cookies where they can stuff the food. The whole place kicked off.

Later that evening, the cooks are bumbling they're merry way across the parade ground to their accomodation, when to the sound of 4 tonner's tailgates dropping, 20 scouse thugs entertain themselves with pick helves and start laying into the cooks.

Next day we had a team of ACC show up and the food from that point was fine.

Jurby was still a shithole though.

Originally Posted by crow_bag

As for the chefs it depends, my current cook house is entirely military (except for the pot washers) as it's not PAYD. My last place had military and civilian chefs with a SSGT who ran the kitchen but all rations are ordered through ESS and ESS were responsible for running the cook house (the cook house shared the kitchen with the NAAFI), manning the tills, kitchen porters and that sort of stuff. But this will vary from facility to facility.

Fair dos, in recent times I have only dined in either PAYD messing or transit camps. Both seem to be run by civvies, which is generally an inconvenience since they a) do not give one microfuck about making things good, they're just working hour-for-hour for their pay, and b) have no understanding of how the army works whatsoever, have no desire to learn whatsoever, and are generally complete fuckholes who couldn't even get a job in McDonalds.

On the up shot they don't seem to take such offence to you taking 3 sausages (this is, transit camp; obviously PAYD it doesn't matter anyway), and aren't very good detectives so unless you make yourself remembered, doing 2 passes of the counter is more of an option than with the more switched on army chefs.

Originally Posted by mush_dad

I recall being on an ACF summer camp at Jurby IOM in the late 70's. We had civvy cooks then and it caused a riot as they were skimming the rations and taking home half the joints that should have been roasted and gave us slop stew instead. Cue one mouthy git from Huyton teling the cookies where they can stuff the food. The whole place kicked off.

Later that evening, the cooks are bumbling they're merry way across the parade ground to their accomodation, when to the sound of 4 tonner's tailgates dropping, 20 scouse thugs entertain themselves with pick helves and start laying into the cooks.

We did a camp on SPTA where a load of the cadets were quite ill from the food they were serving. It was some sort of creamy chicken pasta thing so the chunder was all horrible stinking white fluid. First few cadets to fall foul used the ablutions then realised it was a false economy as they were cleaning them in the morning, not us. Once the others realised they all had the voms, they proceeded to go around to the staff entrance of the cookhouse and chuck all over the steps and the door.

First we knew about it was the 'Kitchen Manager' (sodexho or whoever) coming to see us for breakfast to ask us why his kitchen doorsteps stunk to high heaven and were covered in chunder. Early morning CFAV response "probably because you fed them shit food" didn't go down well when really the guy was just looking for an apology and a cleaning party.

70's to 80's at least, possibly longer, my County had a team of volunteer adults solely for cookhouse duties- It did seem to work pretty well, especially in flexibility following a weather disaster or similar.

I think this may well persist elsewhere to this day; there is one County with adults wearing AJC Badges who don't, as I understand it, have any cadet training functions.

We were on contract coaches for annuals, but for a detachment weekend, I will certainly agree dp's comments on the totally enthusiastic reaction you got when a couple of four tonners rocked up!


And the Commer minibus must have been the most unexciting vehicle on the road even when they were brand new!

Something which was very rare in the 70's, but occurred, I suspect is now a thing of the past - the cadet the height of his rifle!

Originally Posted by tom_dkg

And the Commer minibus must have been the most unexciting vehicle on the road even when they were brand new!

That's where you're showing your age Tom, this was the heli-bus workhorse of my generation:



LDV Pilot. A true classic in unreliable modes of transport. Just the thought of the cheap seats with grey, blue and maroon fabric, padding so thin the metal frame stuck in your back, and the pathetic tinny stereo which did not make good reproduction of Limp Bizkit... makes me drift off into a stream of fond memories.

In fact, my first detachment minibus didn't even have windows. They just bought a Pilot van and bolted a load of coach seats in the back. We used the profits from the naafi breaks to buy a sizeable stereo, the speakers had to go in little wooden boxes as there was no interior to mount to. The boxes then got bolted to the walls, and the bolt holes leaked when it rained. That thing was a true classic until some H&S bloke joined the unit and condemned it, laying it to rust in peace in the detachment car park, getting used solely as a shed. Cucking funt, I hope he's dead by now, he ruined a good fun road trip and the brand spanking citroen van that replaced it was utter shite.

To have troops in 4 toners, they need to have the seats fitted in the back. They look like rows of 'racing' seats with seat belts.

PAYD, it should be mandatory in big letters what the 'meal deals' are, what is included for the basic price, they then might be not bad.