Originally Posted by Porridge_gun

I think with your track record of fibs and porkies you'd perhaps be better refraining from offering advice?

Well... I don't know about his track record, but an awful lot of what he says sounds reasonable..

There seem to be a huge inbreeding problem with all three cadet organisations.. The better ones join regular and TA, and therefore you would tend to get a buildup of those individuals who do not make the mark.

I think there are a lot of good suggestions in D-Ps post..!

What about some others..

1. Some sort of annual MATSS assessment, particularly AFT and BMI..

2. All ex cadets to complete recruit training and 2 years service in the reserves before rejoining.

Originally Posted by HE117

Well... I don't know about his track record, but an awful lot of what he says sounds reasonable..
.

I don't doubt it mate, sadly tarnished by ridiculous porkies, fibs and deceit

This isn't the forum to make the in here but a quick flick though past posts will paint a picture.

Originally Posted by Porridge_gun

I don't doubt it mate, sadly tarnished by ridiculous porkies, fibs and deceit

This isn't the forum to make the in here but a quick flick though past posts will paint a picture.

Either way, can we *please* keep it out of this thread (and the forum, ideally...)?

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

I see the normal derailment brigade has arrived in force to drown the debate into a vat of child abuse allegations; but this is one of the few threads where respectable and serious debate has occurred and it would be nice to think it might continue at a mature and meaningful level.

Standby, Standby!

To be honest I think a lot of the boring, over the top, pointless crap in the ACF comes from the adults and not the kids. The kids will be in the ACF for 3-5 years and for that time it's a bit of good fun where at the weekend they can dress up in greens and go play in the woods. Some will take it more seriously, but that's still generally positive. I think everyone here would rather they spend their evenings polishing their boots than stealing cars.

It's some of the adults who make being a CFAV a chore. I find ignoring them or just saying no to their pointless crap elicits rapid backtracking as their ego's start crumbling. The 2 counties I've served in have been largely free of such nuisance staff. Polishing boots is but one lesson period, and upkeep done in the cadets own time. Standing order is : Boots will be clean and brushed. You get no extra points for glass like toe caps. We wear CS95 as working dress/PPE, not for Buck House guard duty. I think correctly fitting clean headress is more important than glass like toe caps and the rest of the uniform should be clean and pressed.

For most who go far in the ACF, it is their prime reason for their continued existence. Their day job is nothing more than a means to an end to ensure they can afford the fuel to drive to their ACF in the evenings (and buy fancy webbing).

But for an increasing number of people this is becoming the norm. My job used to be fantastic, varied and had value and respect. Now it has been changed to dull, compartmentalised repetitive shite, and absolutely no prospects for advancement or even level transfer for 10+ years while the the job is 'reformed' by Govt, staff levels are slashed, pay is frozen and pensions stolen. At least I still get 10 days annual leave per year for being a CFAV still, and use it because its 10 days away from what is now a shit-hole job doing something good for people who deserve it. My job has become a means to an end for everything, not just the ACF. In fact it is the decline in satisfaction at work that drove me to join the ACF. I wanted something worth doing and satisfying again, because the job wasn't doing it for me. A neighbour has just joined my County as a PI for the same reason. She hates her work (for a railway company as a revenue inspector) and wants a positive role to fulfil. I hope she finds it in the ACF as I did.

One of the bigger problems in the ACF however is the ex-cadet community. They dominate many ACF counties, and in places where the bulk of AIs are ex-cadets, their mafia-like family status means any outsider coming in to the organisation has no hope. A lot of cadets join at 12/13, and attend every single parade night, weekend and camp for the next 5/6 years, and despite having no career prospects in real life, see themselves as pretty top notch. On their 18th birthday, distraught at the thought that their beloved organisation is going to throw them out, they become AIs, to prevent the inevitable. All their mates from cadets are already AIs, so they're instantly accepted, and go on to be AIs. The problem is, they don't stop being cadets. They're wearing an adults uniform, they do the courses and sign the papers but in their heads, they haven't taken on any of the maturity of responsibility associated with the transition from youth group member to youth group leader. And the genuine volunteers like your ex-regs or complete civvies end up picking up the dog shit for a group of incompetent teenagers who are on the books as instructors. Those genuine volunteers quickly lose all motivation and interest and bugger off, leaving the ex-cadets to continue their reign of bollocks.

Spot on.

But the career prospects bit isn't true in every case. Like Eton and the mafia, it's not what you know it's who you know, and being part of the family can give you a leg up in the career stakes especially if you aren't very bright or talented. I can think of a few I know who got their day jobs because of their association with the ACF, rather than the merit of open competition. And since I hate my job currently I'm up for some of that if the right job comes along.

My recommendations to the ACF in order to help rid it of all the pointless dick waving and walty crap would be:

• Bin regimental affiliation. It does nothing except convince insecure adults that they are in the army. Units seldom do anything which relates them to their affiliated unit, the kids don't give a flying fuck, it's just an opportunity for the AIs to play soldier. Introduce either an ACF-wide capbadge and stable belt, or at slightly greater expense, county-wide capbadges and stable belts. Let them learn the history of something which they are actually part of and be proud of it, rather than leading them to believe that they are part of something which they are not.

• Raise the joining age of AIs to 21 and reduce the leaving age of cadets to 18. This enforces a mandatory period of no less than 3 years between cadets and adults, and removes the awkward facilitation of over-18 cadets. That 3 years forces them to find life outside the ACF and grow up a bit. If after 3 years they still want to be CFAVs, then fine. But leaving it at 18 allows people to make an overnight transition which doesn't allow them to re-assess their role.

• Ban all forms of dress other than CS95 / MTP when it's in, and suits for formal dinners. Lard-arses prancing around in FADs looks like shit, and it gives people ideas. Mess Dress makes a mockery too, especially as people have a habit of posing for facebook photos whilst trolleyed. Everyone wears CS95 and makes an effort to make it look spot on. Also bring in an MP-like TRF with "ACF" in big black letters on a yellow background. Nobody's going to look like the big man when walking around with that on their shoulder, but those genuinely proud to represent the ACF will not mind wearing it and will be happy to iron a nice sharp crease down the middle.

Keeping the ACF a civvy-run military organisation is not a problem. It just needs to be assured that everybody in it is completely clear on why they are in it, what it means to be in it, and the limitations of their position.

I'd go along with pretty much all of that, but time out for cadet to adult transition is too long. 18 months would do it, and no return to your former det for another 18 months. Equates to 3 years absence in the eyes of the junior cadets coming up. At the current rate of staff turnover and attrition, it would change the ACF in a very short time span too.

In my former county and det we had two cadet over 18 SNCO's. On Tuesday night, they were cadets. On Wednesday, had interview with commandant, Thursdays back at the det as PIs. The Det commander hadn't even been informed. They were useless to us, one because he was an arrogant twat, and the other because she was not really mature enough for the role. They both left a few months later.

Hector, Tbh I wouldn't be bothered either way. It was meant as sarcasm to the poster.
I do think some officers are rather jumped up though. I was approached by a captain at camp last year for not saluting him. I didn't even see him as he was behind me!

There are some good instructors tho.
Ok, not many but nevertheless there are some.

Originally Posted by HE117

Well... I don't know about his track record, but an awful lot of what he says sounds reasonable..

There seem to be a huge inbreeding problem with all three cadet organisations.. The better ones join regular and TA, and therefore you would tend to get a buildup of those individuals who do not make the mark.

I think there are a lot of good suggestions in D-Ps post..!

What about some others..

1. Some sort of annual MATSS assessment, particularly AFT and BMI..

2. All ex cadets to complete recruit training and 2 years service in the reserves before rejoining.

There are annual and bi-annual training tests already. PIT Lvl 1, JSP535, and WHTs. Many counties insist on No pass = No pay. It only becomes an issue when re-tests are not organised for those that need them, as the pressure is for PTDs to be used for the Cadet's training and star boards.

It might surprise you, but I'd accept an annual fitness test, and would pass on BMI now. That photo you keep posting is of me is BEFORE I joined the ACF and 5 stone heavier. I also don't do full bore shooting any more as Bisley is just a complete fucking toilet run by idiots and my local clubs are shite boring. I haven't the time or inclination to go shooting anymore now I'm in the ACF, and even ACF shooting no longer interests me as it has sadly become just a means to an end, ie; star board passes. The Cadet Forces are slowly becoming 'anti' shooting it seems.

As an AI for almost 5 years, I can say I have never had issues with this kind of behavior in the units I have been with.

There have been a couple of them in the county - but they were generally ignored/laughed at and left.

We now have a mix of Ex-Reg, Ex-TA, Ex-Cadet and utter Civvies within the county and each brings their own life experience and qualities to the role.
Like most ACF regions we are short of officers, and they are encouraging some of us to go for commission, and I will be doing mine later this year - not because I want the "kudos", but because it is for the good of the county/company, and I feel I have got enough experience of how the ACF works to be of value in the role (I flatly refused to go straight for commission as I wanted to know the role properly first).

Walts do not last long in my region as we have a large number of ex-serving personnel to call their bluff and (I believe) county HQ make sure they check the records for those that claim prior service.

There will always be those that take the rank too seriously - they generally get told to wind their neck in, and either do so, or end up leaving because no-one "respects their authority".
We teach cadets to be good citizens, and help them to get the self confidence and discipline that seems to be so lacking in todays society - we can't do that if we do not lead by example.

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

My recommendations to the ACF in order to help rid it of all the pointless dick waving and walty crap would be:

• Bin regimental affiliation. It does nothing except convince insecure adults that they are in the army. Units seldom do anything which relates them to their affiliated unit, the kids don't give a flying fuck, it's just an opportunity for the AIs to play soldier. Introduce either an ACF-wide capbadge and stable belt, or at slightly greater expense, county-wide capbadges and stable belts. Let them learn the history of something which they are actually part of and be proud of it, rather than leading them to believe that they are part of something which they are not.

• Raise the joining age of AIs to 21 and reduce the leaving age of cadets to 18. This enforces a mandatory period of no less than 3 years between cadets and adults, and removes the awkward facilitation of over-18 cadets. That 3 years forces them to find life outside the ACF and grow up a bit. If after 3 years they still want to be CFAVs, then fine. But leaving it at 18 allows people to make an overnight transition which doesn't allow them to re-assess their role.

• Ban all forms of dress other than CS95 / MTP when it's in, and suits for formal dinners. Lard-arses prancing around in FADs looks like shit, and it gives people ideas. Mess Dress makes a mockery too, especially as people have a habit of posing for facebook photos whilst trolleyed. Everyone wears CS95 and makes an effort to make it look spot on. Also bring in an MP-like TRF with "ACF" in big black letters on a yellow background. Nobody's going to look like the big man when walking around with that on their shoulder, but those genuinely proud to represent the ACF will not mind wearing it and will be happy to iron a nice sharp crease down the middle.

I agree with all of those points, if acted on then they would go a long way in solving some of the problems mentioned on this thread.
As regards regimental affiliation, with the amalgamations of units in the past, it can get quite complicated trying to get across past regimental history or achievements, especially if some cadets have no interest in the subject. Maybe by taking the wider view that the ACF is affiliated to the British army as a whole is the answer (which I think is the view which a lot of cadets already have in their heads).

Originally Posted by walt_of_the_walts

Standby, Standby!

You and dinosaur_poo need to look back over the thread. the only time threads get derailed is when you go on a self-importance trip of what class of Betty's ticket you hold and the extent to which people need to wave their arms in the air as you approach.

You have been make to luck like a right twat in the photo if it's you decrying the poor military deportment and waltishness of your compatriots when you have a cammed up sniper rifle in front of you that allgedly is yours.

Care to comment?

My job used to be fantastic, varied and had value and respect. Now it has been changed to dull, compartmentalised repetitive shite, and absolutely no prospects for advancement or even level transfer for 10+ years while the the job is 'reformed' by Govt, staff levels are slashed, pay is frozen and pensions stolen....

... In fact it is the decline in satisfaction at work that drove me to join the ACF. I wanted something worth doing and satisfying again, because the job wasn't doing it for me.

Even in a declining public sector this isn't necessarily so because I went from Grade 6 to SCS 2 in 5 years during a period of rapid contraction. I got out because the early release scheme allowed me to become totally debt free and pay off half of my mortgage which allowed me to down-shift for a few years. I have to wonder WTF you are doing if you feel there's no prospects for you to even sideways move in 10+ years or with a generous scheme on offer why you don't just cash in your ticket and get a job you enjoy rather than relying on the ACF for your shits and giggles.

But that's the crux of what I've seen of the ACF. Lard arses who if they were ex-reg never made it past L/Cpl, or people who are bored with their dead-end job wanting to play Capt or Maj, and that's true of both categories. While it might seriously curtail recruitment, it wouldn't hurt the ACF to ensure that it's candidates for commission aren't big-timing bin men looking for status.

As a kid I was in the ATC and I never saw the amount of clowing around, ally kit-wearing, big timing that you see from the supposed adults in the ACF. I wonder why that is?

Originally Posted by Hector_Chavez_V

No, nor would I let him near my well stocked fridge..

Why? Do you fear it would get manhandled overboard onto some unsuspecting Somali pirates?