The ex-cadet instructors I was really impressed by were those who were never going to make it their life's work to climb the greasy pole.

Unfortunately at a higher level I found that being 'on the inside' always but always outpointed skill, knowledge and up to date training. I left when it became obvious that unless I accepted that fact I was banging my head on the wall.

Time and again I meet ex AI's and Officers who have just thrown the towel in faced with this. I've watched local dets wither to almost nothing as committed, engaged and experienced staff leave when faced with having to accept a Det Comd who despite having very little experience are committed brown-nosers.

To answer your point I left 2006 but remained in contact as my son joined as a cadet. The main problem I saw with the syllabus was that I taught to it and ensured my instructors did yet saw others ignore whole chunks of it, especially on the physical fitness side.

Originally Posted by blue-sophist

It's what you do to help the kids that actually matters, not what you wear.

Very true, it's just that when you do anything in your spare time, it has to be worth it for you as well as worth it for them. I don't think anybody is in a position to do stuff in their spare time which they don't enjoy, regardless of how much others enjoy it.

Herein lies the problem. People join up because they get a kick out of teaching the kids. But then as the pointless bureaucracy, bullshit and hassle develops from those who enjoy it (because they think it makes it more like the actual army), the job becomes less and less enjoyable to those who joined it for the elementary cause of teaching kids mil-skills.

There are counties which stipulate that cadets uniform is as far removed from their regiment as possible (no stable belts, blue berets rather than regi colour, brassards not rank slides, etc) to prevent confusion with soldiers (because 12 year old soldiers are commonplace) whilst the adults are encouraged to dress as close to it as possible, complete with stupid sticks and accessories. There are counties which, on a weekly basis, issue a yellow-pages size set of orders containing 99% bullshit copied from last week's publication, but it has to be printed and put on a unit noticeboard despite the unit only have 5 hours in the week, which should be used for training anyway. There are counties in which every single instructor has an 'appointment' and can't just be an 'instructor', and as a result are required to spend their week nights doing admin. There is a copious amount of bullshit that has to be dealt with on top of teaching the kids.

This is what pushes people out. It's not a direct result of being told what to wear, or being surrounded by lunatics who bolt on a few 'buy your own' medals on their supersize FADs and tell stories about the battle of STANTA, or gobby 18 year old ex cadet lance corporals giving them grief; it's just the combination of it all, plus the unending paper trail which just follows you about... it's literally 3 emails a day for some, if not more; having to fill out an EASP every time you so much clean the unit building in case somebody cuts their fingers off with the hoover... it's neverending.

I think some people join up for a simple one or two nights a week plus a weekend a month of having a good laugh and seeing their knowledge passed onto the next generation; and are very much disappointed when they end up dealing with it 5 nights a week, having their inbox overloaded with bollocksy emails where 99% of the content is over-formality for the sake of making it fun for those who enjoy that, and getting fuck all gratitude for it... in fact getting moaned at for what they don't do rather than thanked for what they do.

I'm tracking with interest, as I have one family member already in the ACF [adult "SSgt"] and possibly another one on the way ["hofficer"].

I defer comment until I know, from direct inputs, what it's really like ... for them. I'm certainly getting the vibrations that it depends on where you are, and how the County or whatever decides to play things.

Box on ... I'm reading with interest.

Originally Posted by blue-sophist

I'm tracking with interest, as I have one family member already in the ACF [adult "SSgt"] and possibly another one on the way ["hofficer"].

I defer comment until I know, from direct inputs, what it's really like ... for them. I'm certainly getting the vibrations that it depends on where you are, and how the County or whatever decides to play things.

Box on ... I'm reading with interest.

I'd like to think it's also a lot down to the individuals approach - you can choose to be drawn in to the bullshit, or work on making it good. It's not always easy!

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

plus the unending paper trail which just follows you about... it's literally 3 emails a day for some, if not more; having to fill out an EASP every time you so much clean the unit building in case somebody cuts their fingers off with the hoover... it's neverending.

Absolutely! As a TA Troop Commander I got maybe 1 'green' phonecall and 2-3 'green' emails a week, Wife = Happy.

As an ACF Det Comd it was a strange day when I didn't get a 'green' phonecall and usually a lengthy one at that and I set up a separate e-mail account simply to deal with 'green' issues. 8 drill nights a month and often two weekends. Wife = 'Are you stupid?'

As an outsider looking in one aspect of the ACF that would put me off is the absolute pettyness and internal politicing which seems to go on in some units. I get an impression of lots of huffyness and an embarrasssing level of he-said, she-said crap between people who are supposed to be Adult "Leaders". Again, hopefully the new selection procedures will, if properly enforced to a common standard, reduce this over time. Start by not automatically making every fat female ex-Cadet a PI. I'd enforce a 12 month "air-gap" between being a Cadet and becomeing an Instructor - if nothing else to try to get some of the no-hopers to develop a social life outside the Cadets.

Originally Posted by saladin

As an outsider looking in one aspect of the ACF that would put me off is the absolute pettyness and internal politicing which seems to go on in some units. I get an impression of lots of huffyness and an embarrasssing level of he-said, she-said crap between people who are supposed to be Adult "Leaders". Again, hopefully the new selection procedures will, if properly enforced to a common standard, reduce this over time. Start by not automatically making every fat female ex-Cadet a PI. I'd enforce a 12 month "air-gap" between being a Cadet and becomeing an Instructor - if nothing else to try to get some of the no-hopers to develop a social life outside the Cadets.

Definitely a lot of that. A lot of it comes down to little 'families' that form in units. Without that 12 month 'air gap', the people who used to be cadets become instructors, meaning that people who were friends in the unit as cadets end up as the unit staff. So when a complete civvy / ex-reg comes in and joins the party, the reception is initially friendly because they all like the concept of having some real army stuff in the unit, but once they find out that they're less interested in the bullshit rather than more interested, an 'us and them' political situation is inevitable between the group of old cadet buddies and new instructors. Lots of spiting of others and devoting resources to internal politics rather than cadet training.

Furthermore, because cadets has been the focus of their lives since they were 12, they can't let go of it. Ever. There's a lot on the dole so without realising it they can give 100% of their time to the ACF, so by the end of the day when they've written 200 pages of bollocks on the unit laptop and you haven't so much as called HQ to book a minibus (because you work 8-6 in a hard graft job and drive an hour each way for it and are knackered by the time you get home); they completely can't understand it. And you get whinged at. And told you're not pulling your weight. And eventually get pushed out as a slacker.

I completely agree with Saladin that people selection is going to need a bit of a refurb from above. But problematically, as I said before, for you to do something in your spare time, it has to be enjoyable. The ACF is a big organisation and I'm simply not convinced that if it only took the finest free range eggs from the basket, that it would have enough people to get the job done. Those dole-scrounging fat fucks who sit at home doing unit admin all week may be a de-motivational icon for the kids to look at, but they are secretly quite useful for those who work 5 day weeks. I think if we took away the overkeen ones, the regular decent types would probably struggle.

Thus, I think, the ACF really wants reminding that it is a youth organisation not a fighting battalion. If it reduced it's bullshit and bureaucracy to a level associated with youth clubs rather than 1950s guards battalions, they might not require such a heavy dosage of ACF extremists, and could be managed mostly by the volunteers, not the ex-cadet-overkeen-social-club.

DP, you must have been in a truly shit county, as whilst a lot of what you say rings true, it's at its extreme end, and not the median or norm.

Anyway, over and out to you.

Should Walt of the Walts leave ARRSE?

Originally Posted by walt_of_the_walts

Anyway, over and out to you.

Should Walt of the Walts leave ARRSE?

Originally Posted by tom_dkg

Very close Choc Frog

Air despatch "wings"
Army Flying (Pilot) Wings
Parachute Wings
SAS Wings
Parachute "Lightbulb"
Ammunition Technical Officer
Chief Engineer or Chief Ocean Watchkeeper
Commando Dagger
Army Diver
Army 100
TA50
Special Observer

This is per LAND/RF 2353 dated 02 August 2006 and is fully covered in JSP336 Vol 15, Pt3, Pam15, Para 307 and JSP 336 Vol 12 Pam 13 Paras 211,318 and 328.

Also I think it is generally recognised that for an ex drummer, bugler or piper, if part of a cadet band, it is not seen as inappropriate for that badge to be worn.

This is the problem is'nt it, these badges are widely available at all good stockists. Infact the det commander at the cadet unit which uses my TAC can regulary be seen wearing a number of these, he was even seen at another AIs wedding in SD with SAS wings on and a lonely SA medal ( and I doubt he was even 18 in 82'). He definity has'nt been a para or a blade to my knolwedge, as he joined my TA unit many years ago and on old photos knocking around the place he's not wearing any of the above. Hes not a bad bloke on the face of it but im agog as why he needs to dress like this, ( or any other AI who attires the same)