Thread: FMT

So someone who has been driving a minibus safely since 1997 or even earlier should have his license revoked and have to go to DST Leconfield because it....

makes perfect sense to me. Rules should apply to all or none...

The rules do apply to all. The rule is you must have a D1 license. Some of us had one by passing a driving test pre 1997. Some poor buggers have to go to DST.

I think anyone who has been driving safely (no bans or endorsements) since 1997 might have the requisite experience and maturity to handle a minibus safely.

Permit 19 is a council lead scheme which allows drivers who do not have D1 on their licence to drive a mini bus of no more than 16 seats and a weight limit of (IIRC) 3.5t, provided they are not doing so for hire or reward.

These Permit 19 certificates need to be in the vehicle, with the disc (about the size of a tax disc) displayed in the window.

The ACFA is also a register issuer of the permit 19.

As CFAV are not paid to drive the minibus, nor do the cadets pay for the fuel/insurance of the bus, CFAV have been able to operate under the permit 19 ruling. This would not apply to regular soliders.

Permit 19 is continuing for youth groups outside the MoD (such as Scouts and guides) but the MoD has decreed that the ACF are not allowed to operate under the scheme after 1st April 2010.

A budget has been made available to each county for driver training. Some have used it, some haven't.

So it will be driver training at DST if you havent already got D1? ISTRC the ATC have been doing it for a couple of years now.

Feedback is not good...

Originally Posted by walt_of_the_walts

So someone who has been driving a minibus safely since 1997 or even earlier should have his license revoked and have to go to DST Leconfield because it....

makes perfect sense to me. Rules should apply to all or none...

The rules do apply to all. The rule is you must have a D1 license. Some of us had one by passing a driving test pre 1997. Some poor buggers have to go to DST.

I think anyone who has been driving safely (no bans or endorsements) since 1997 might have the requisite experience and maturity to handle a minibus safely.

well does that mean that next year, all those who passed in 1998 or before should be allowed?

the rule doesn't exist because of the time people have been driving, the rule exists because the law changed and the government didn't want to annoy everybody by revoking their licenses.

IF all you need to do to drive a minibus safely is hold a car license, for 13 years, there would be no requirement for a minibus test.

are you telling me if I got my license in 1996 and didn't drive for 14 years, and you got yours in 1998 and drove a transit van to work every day for those 12 years, I would be a more suitable candidate for an automatic D1 license?

thought not.

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

...are you telling me if I got my license in 1996 and didn't drive for 14 years, and you got yours in 1998 and drove a transit van to work every day for those 12 years, I would be a more suitable candidate for an automatic D1 license? thought not.

Mate, I asked a civil question, you didn't need to go off on one.
It seems that I was correct that I can drive a minibus not for profit, but not under the ACF's banner. I've been safely driving kids in my care in an ACF minibus for the last 10 years but now I can't. OK.
For info, 3 years ago when this was first announced, I did the D1 theory test. The ACF/Army in characteristic style, failed to arrange the driver training & testing as they'd promised, the theory test expired after 2 years, back to square 1.
I live 130 miles from the nearest testing station, and 300-odd miles from the place where the training is supposed to take place. I work, so I can't just drop everything and go. Another arrangement (ie not the flaming ACF's) would have been ideal, that's not to be. Thanks to those of you who took the time to help.

Originally Posted by El_Supremo

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

...are you telling me if I got my license in 1996 and didn't drive for 14 years, and you got yours in 1998 and drove a transit van to work every day for those 12 years, I would be a more suitable candidate for an automatic D1 license? thought not.

Mate, I asked a civil question, you didn't need to go off on one.

was answering WOTW's point, not yours.

It seems that I was correct that I can drive a minibus not for profit, but not under the ACF's banner. I've been safely driving kids in my care in an ACF minibus for the last 10 years but now I can't. OK.
For info, 3 years ago when this was first announced, I did the D1 theory test. The ACF/Army in characteristic style, failed to arrange the driver training & testing as they'd promised, the theory test expired after 2 years, back to square 1.
I live 130 miles from the nearest testing station, and 300-odd miles from the place where the training is supposed to take place. I work, so I can't just drop everything and go. Another arrangement (ie not the flaming ACF's) would have been ideal, that's not to be. Thanks to those of you who took the time to help.

Im not supporting the Army's way of teaching or testing it, simply saying that if there is a requirement for a seperate license for minibus, there must be some kind of additional content... which you don't just 'automatically learn' when you start driving pre-97!

You wouldn't say 'You need a L98A2 weapons handling test to fire the weapon, unless you past your first L98A1 WHT before 1997' would you?!

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

was answering WOTW's point, not yours.

Fair enough, sorry

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

Im not supporting the Army's way of teaching or testing it, simply saying that if there is a requirement for a seperate license for minibus, there must be some kind of additional content... which you don't just 'automatically learn' when you start driving pre-97!
You wouldn't say 'You need a L98A2 weapons handling test to fire the weapon, unless you past your first L98A1 WHT before 1997' would you?!

But does passing another test mean I'm not going to have a crash?
I kind of don't get it, we're 'not part of the army' yet at every turn the army is placing more & more restrictions on what we do. I'm a civvy driving kids in a minibus. If I'm in the scouts or doing it for a school, I don't need D1. If I'm taking a DofE expedition out under the Scouts or a school I don't need to go through a 6 week pain in the ass land clearance process with every single landowner. So what am I? A squaddie or a civvy?
Don't get me wrong, I love being in the ACF, it's just that a lot of the unecessary tripe that the army/MOD is laying on us now is driving me nuts.

Originally Posted by El_Supremo

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

was answering WOTW's point, not yours.

Fair enough, sorry

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

Im not supporting the Army's way of teaching or testing it, simply saying that if there is a requirement for a seperate license for minibus, there must be some kind of additional content... which you don't just 'automatically learn' when you start driving pre-97!
You wouldn't say 'You need a L98A2 weapons handling test to fire the weapon, unless you past your first L98A1 WHT before 1997' would you?!

But does passing another test mean I'm not going to have a crash?
I kind of don't get it, we're 'not part of the army' yet at every turn the army is placing more & more restrictions on what we do. I'm a civvy driving kids in a minibus. If I'm in the scouts or doing it for a school, I don't need D1. If I'm taking a DofE expedition out under the Scouts or a school I don't need to go through a 6 week pain in the ass land clearance process with every single landowner. So what am I? A squaddie or a civvy?
Don't get me wrong, I love being in the ACF, it's just that a lot of the unecessary tripe that the army/MOD is laying on us now is driving me nuts.

well, we're employed and insured by the Army, so Im pretty sure that gives them grounds to impose restrictions.

Yeah, that's fair enough.
How, though, is applying land clearance rules for a non-tactical expedition in a country where there is a right of access to pretty much all ground necessary for our insurance or employment?
And if our local school can function (without killing any kids) using drivers who have MIDAS but not cat D1, why can't we?
Don't want to start an argument though (it's probably just 'because!')

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

Originally Posted by El_Supremo

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

was answering WOTW's point, not yours.

Fair enough, sorry

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

Im not supporting the Army's way of teaching or testing it, simply saying that if there is a requirement for a seperate license for minibus, there must be some kind of additional content... which you don't just 'automatically learn' when you start driving pre-97!
You wouldn't say 'You need a L98A2 weapons handling test to fire the weapon, unless you past your first L98A1 WHT before 1997' would you?!

But does passing another test mean I'm not going to have a crash?
I kind of don't get it, we're 'not part of the army' yet at every turn the army is placing more & more restrictions on what we do. I'm a civvy driving kids in a minibus. If I'm in the scouts or doing it for a school, I don't need D1. If I'm taking a DofE expedition out under the Scouts or a school I don't need to go through a 6 week pain in the ass land clearance process with every single landowner. So what am I? A squaddie or a civvy?
Don't get me wrong, I love being in the ACF, it's just that a lot of the unecessary tripe that the army/MOD is laying on us now is driving me nuts.

well, we're employed and insured by the Army, so Im pretty sure that gives them grounds to impose restrictions.

I absolutly agree, you wouldn't go round your mates and pilfer all his beer would you, he'd probably have invited you beforehand...

Originally Posted by El_Supremo

Originally Posted by therealbigdizzle

...are you telling me if I got my license in 1996 and didn't drive for 14 years, and you got yours in 1998 and drove a transit van to work every day for those 12 years, I would be a more suitable candidate for an automatic D1 license? thought not.

Mate, I asked a civil question, you didn't need to go off on one.
It seems that I was correct that I can drive a minibus not for profit, but not under the ACF's banner. I've been safely driving kids in my care in an ACF minibus for the last 10 years but now I can't. OK.
For info, 3 years ago when this was first announced, I did the D1 theory test. The ACF/Army in characteristic style, failed to arrange the driver training & testing as they'd promised, the theory test expired after 2 years, back to square 1.
I live 130 miles from the nearest testing station, and 300-odd miles from the place where the training is supposed to take place. I work, so I can't just drop everything and go. Another arrangement (ie not the flaming ACF's) would have been ideal, that's not to be. Thanks to those of you who took the time to help.

Judging by the few people I know who have done a D1 course at the shithole DST, its all a load of beauracratic nonsense anyway. It could be covered by a familiarisation drive. Thats all I had before taking out a 17 seater + trailer and driving it across the country. And I didn't kill anyone either. Most minibuses in our white fleet have very good handling characteristics, better than many small cars and hatchbacks.

Originally Posted by El_Supremo

I kind of don't get it, we're 'not part of the army' yet at every turn the army is placing more & more restrictions on what we do.

Simple rule of thumb. Does it require us to do more work/jump through hoops/fill in forms etc? If yes, we are Army.

Does it require the Army or MOD to do more work, filling in forms, making phone calls, supplying resources or even putting ther hands in their pocket and paying for it? If yes, then we are civvies and it's not neccessary.

Oh no. I'm not cynical....

Im an AI and work (because we have to ) for the MOD in London and have through work a valid FMT for every licence available with a few extras thrown in. but have been told by my county that it isnt valid in the ACF why the fcuk is this????????

Originally Posted by verdi_811

Im an AI and work (because we have to ) for the MOD in London and have through work a valid FMT for every licence available with a few extras thrown in. but have been told by my county that it isnt valid in the ACF why the fcuk is this????????

because the ACF have stupid habits and don't like to think that the military world outside exists.

the Red Book states to use Pyrotechnics in the ACF you must be KGVI Qualified OR have the correct Weapons Handling Tests completed and signed off by a competent INSTRUCTOR.

So, I take down my Army quals, on a print out from my clerk. Is that acceptable? No, I'm not KGVI. 'But it says...' 'look, this isn't the Army, we do things our way here, you're not KGVI, sod off'

I assume your conversation was something like that?

Originally Posted by walt_of_the_walts

Most minibuses in our white fleet have very good handling characteristics, better than many small cars and hatchbacks.

What I find more odd (on a handling front), is that you can drive a LWB transit van on a car license, but once you put 10 seats in the back you can't.