i think we can stop calling them the senior service now. they have proved they are lower than a snails arse.

Des Browne

The Secretary of State for Defence admitted yesterday that he had been asked to "note" the decision to allow the sailors to give media interviews. He has accepted full responsibility for the fiasco and will face the wrath of MPs on Monday


Tony Blair

The Prime Minister did not know the captives' stories were to be sold until Sunday, after the key decision was taken. Downing Street refuses to go into more detail. Mr Blair conceded yesterday that in retrospect it was a mistake but said the Navy was acting in good faith

Acknowledgement to the Indie for the above list. Not many here on arrse believe that the PM only found out about it on Sunday.

Last edited by nigegilb on Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total

If this is not news I apologise in advance. But there is a petition on the No 10 website 'to name and sack the person responsible for declaring that members of the armed services can sell their stories to the media.'

Can this just be allowed to die now and the key players in the ultimate naval fiasco of the century allowed to fall back into mediocrity and, more importantly, the service of their country?

What should NOT be allowed to be closed is how this utterly embarrassing incident was allowed to start.

Clearly the Iranian Rev. Guard naval units have been watching poor drills on the part of boarding parties in the Shatt / Gulf waters for some time - allowing Lynx top cover to come off-station to refuel (an activity which can be completed in less than 5 mins) is sloppy to say the least; and doubtless was one factor which instigated a move on the part of the Iranian capture teams.

Couple this with weak ROE, low numbers of the required kit (from AEW to heavy weapons on pacifics) and this was waiting to happen.

Conduct during capture is always easy to comment upon when you are not there - what the western media saw was very clearly and cleverly choreographed by the Iranians who are excellent at managing the propaganda war.

The following debacle over selling stories / publicity etc has been simply embarrassing and yet another example of how "Tony and his team knew nothing about it" - well done Tony, since you know so little about what is going on around you (from crooks buying your wife flats in Bristol to who is actually in charge via the decision to go to war) perhaps you should F**k off and allow someone who does know what is happening around them / is prepared to make decisions to take over command

As for M'lud Admirals Band and Johns; Gentlemen you know what is required of you as Officers and Gentlemen - do the decent thing - at the very least it will point out to the rest of the world what a shower of shits your political masters are.

Finally, Faye, £150k buys a lot of Ginsters and fags - but think on: no-one is paying for the stories of over 200 servicemen and women who made the ultimate sacrifice for their nation in the last 4 years. How do you think that sits with us, your colleagues?

Hellfire......reading that Daily Wail dit makes me even more paranoid than Nature intended...watch your backs people....


( did I say recently what a thoroughly decent, dependable and trustworthy fellow that Good CO bloke was ?....You know, the one who has EVERYONE's real details close to hand...... .....his Christmas list just gets longer and longer...)

Don Cabra

Surely that's a crating or a bottle of port fine for those quoted?

Thread edited.

It's not the Naafi Bar, and the press won't differentiate between 'Satirical Black Humour' and a serious post.

PTP

If someone staffs up a paper to you to be "noted" and you recognise that the action suggested in it is wrong, then one of the reasons why you get a big black car, red boxes and lashings of ginger beer, for all I know, is that you pick up the phone and say in Churchillian tones "STOP!!!"

Whether the paper comes from some scrote of a civil servant or a four ring admiral (if we have such beasts) you are the minister. You are johnny on the spot. If you had got where you are by ability rather than your flair at dodging brickbats and grabbing accolades then you would a)know this and b)act accordingly.

If you had read my earlier posts carefully, you would have seen that I suggested starting a different thread, if anyone wished to pursue this particular topic futher. I have not attempted to hijack anything.

Your outbust of evasion, distortion and disinformation is typical of the kind of irrational 'screamer' occasionally encountered during leafleting sessions - and usually considerably outnumbered by responsible individuals met in public who are genuinely concerned for this nation, including the state of its armed forces.

As for "nauseous neo-nazi BNP," evidence, please, if it's not too much to ask - and once again, I strongly suggest you start another thread if you wish to respond (hopefully in at least a semi-coherent fashion).

P.S. Re: Evidence. Please try to come up with something a little more original than the usual unsubstantiated/irrelevant leftie 'spin' like "Party policies/aims/ambitions/personnel/past criminal convictions etc. speak for themselves." I've heard it all before and it gets boring after a while.

P.P.S. To answer your question briefly. A lot could still be learnt from the fact that the Wehrmacht was not too proud (or stupid) to learn from its opponents, e.g. the late Captain Sir Basil Liddell Hart. (I hope that some lessons are learnt from this Iranian fiasco. Whichever way you cut it, Britain and the RN have been made to look impotent in the eyes of the world and, as one earlier contributor said, "Lord Nelson must be turning in his grave.")

It has also been said that the only real difference between Blair and Hitler is that, in spite of his ruthlessless, brutality and ultimate failure, Hitler genuinely loved his country and tried to make it great, whereas Blair despises his and is trying to destroy it. TB is also succeeding, where Hitler failed.

What really pisses me off, being ex RM is that the Paras are gonna dine out on this for years. Bet they can't believe their luck. That goes for all you Pongos.

Problem is I'm inclined to agree with them. We are the laughing stock of all the forces. This came straight out of Charlie Chaplin.

Just when you had recovered from "invading" Spain due to a map reading error and twatting each other with bedding mats....the Paras are no strangers to "whoops" scenarios, the most important thing is to learn from them, or at the very least to ensure that those at the top of the chain take responsibility for their cockups if they expect those at the bottom to take the flak as well.

Every service has it's little run of embarassments that end in media stories, boards og inquiry or court martials, it the RNs turn now. Let's wait and see who cocks up next, but you can bet it won't be a politician who actually stands up and says "mea culpa".

Is this the one ?


Press Briefing - Kosovo 1999

Yeah, that's him, he was responsible for this as well; (allegedly)

Government forced to let ITV News back on the front-line
Last updated at 22:00pm on 3rd November 2006

The Government was yesterday forced into an embarassing climb-down over its decision to ban ITV News filming with front-line troops.
Ministry of Defence officials have been left red-faced after being forced to admit they are dropping claims that the broadcaster had carried "innacurate" reports about the poor medical treatment of injured soliders.

The row that followed led to the MoD it banning ITV News from filming in combat zones.

The MoD has also been forced to back down over accusations that ITV News had intruded on the privacy of an injured soldier.

Instead it has watered-down its complaint to say that it did not like the "tone" of series of reports, which ran over a week on ITV News.

It has now reinstated all the broadcaster rights to film with the military.

The moves appear to back up claims by senior journalists at ITV News that government spin-doctors were trying to bully the broadcaster into not running critical reports about the militaries actvities in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It also being seen as further proof that government spin-doctors have become increasingly "paranoid" about the endless tide of negative publicty about its actvities in the Middle-East.

The ban had been met with astonishment by senior ITV journalist who had claimed the MoD was openly attacking freedom of speech and the freedom of the press.

One well known correspondent had said: "Everyone is really suprised about how over the top they have gone. This is all about what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are incredibly sensitive to the point of paranoia."

Last edited by nigegilb on Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

At least James Clark in consistant at f8cking up

I am seriously amazed that he was not sacked after that one, the amount of ill will that generated in the press corps was unbelievable. All it indicates that everybody above him who didn’t sack him then has to go now.

I think you are being a bit harsh on the huge intellectual power at the MoD AJ. I am surprised they need to listen to initiatives from the bottom, thought they had everything in hand.........

He'll have plenty of YTS lads and secretaries who can take the fall so plenty of f*ckups left in him

Cousin,

When you or ANY of Uncle Sam's Motorcycle Club can work up the energy to totter round the lower field at Lympestone, let alone the Dartmoor 30 miler (in under 8 hours, 7 if you are an ocifer) , THEN you will have earned the right to criticise Real Marines - which is what the shoulder title stands for next time you meet one in Quantico.....

( the Army/Navy game is going to be mayhem this year..... )

Don Cabra

KERCHI_I_I_I_NG! Give that man a Cocunut, 'Arry.

Now where's that lovely avatar with a Chally silhouette superimposed on Westminster entitled

' REGIME CHANGE BEGINS AT HOME '...........saw it on here again recently......definitely a Tee shirt crying out to be made out of that one !

Le Chevre

But is it a twenty-five year tradition ?