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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:10 am

Henry_Tombs:
luke:
What an awful choice of picture from the beeb, that bath isn't due to poor accomodation (of which there are thousands of images to more suitably illustrate this), it's because some minger(s) haven't bothered cleaning it for months.

Great that this is getting some exposure, but not like this.

I would have to agree; you would need to be an ayslum seeker to have a bath like that in your accommodation.
Please don't don't tell me standards have slipped that much since I have been out.

There has been absolutely no clarification of the picture what so ever. I expect its from a set of ablutions that has been put out of bounds due to outstanding work etc, and give it a few months thats what it would look like. If that bath is in use, someones head needs to roll, and i'd start with the block NCO's.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:21 am

News24 is showing the photos over and over, with much better clarity than the website. There is dirt in the soap dishes and the crap on the floor of the bath is peeling off in one corner.

This looks mightily like a jape by one of the boys.


They read out some emails including one purporting to be from a pads wife of some 20 years service. She said that how could You trust single guys to look after a block when it isn't their own.

She's obviously never had a block inspection

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:22 am

from the Beeb's comments page

Quote:
I'm afraid the fauilt for this lies with Mrs Thatcher - and I speak as a Tory supporter and former service dependant. Married quarters and the estate used to be controlled by the services but Mrs T saw fit to hand it to a private sector interested only in their profit. They have captive tenants who cannot easily afford to live anywhere else.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:45 am

We wouldnt have given the 'bath' pic such prominence on the BAFF website. However, the state of the bottom of the bath could well be indicative of a blocked drain or waste water backing up - a serious plumbing issue - and poor cleansing drills by the users does not account for the missing tiles etc.

BAFF have asked for pics of GOOD accommodation as well as the bad. I was pleased to see that Paul Wood's BBC TV report showed some excellent modern accommodation and dining facilities. But let's not kid the public that all SLA is of that high standard.

cheers, D.Y.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 am

It was disappointing the BAFF campaign did not get a mention in that report.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:12 am

i'm in a 1930s block

never any hot water or fuk all... its in sh1t state

loads of new blocks been built on vimy aswell.. wouldnt mind livin in 1

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:07 am

Just so you don't all feel special by having these great buildings (and I'm just lucky I don't live here) but my work place is still using buildings built in the 1940's with similar standards to those you describe....no hot water, heating leaking steam causing corrosion and damp, tiles missing from toilets, flooding over the floor from blocked drains etc etc etc.....

But then again what do you expect when someone gets a bonus relating to how little of the infrastructure budget they spend in a year.

It happens in the civii world as well, We are just lucky we only have to spend 9 hours a day in it.

S_R

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:10 am

Sympathetic_Reaction:
Just so you don't all feel special by having these great buildings (and I'm just lucky I don't live here) but my work place is still using buildings built in the 1940's with similar standards to those you describe....no hot water, heating leaking steam causing corrosion and damp, tiles missing from toilets, flooding over the floor from blocked drains etc etc etc.....

But then again what do you expect when someone gets a bonus relating to how little of the infrastructure budget they spend in a year.

It happens in the civii world as well, We are just lucky we only have to spend 9 hours a day in it.

S_R

Do You work in an area that is exempt from H and S rules?

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:36 am

BAFF on Radio 4 now...

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:41 am

Sven:


Do You work in an area that is exempt from H and S rules?

No, just an old site which has suffered since being privatised through lack of investment.

They are working on it ..... in the same way that the MOD are, slowly and with painful lack of consitancy. They will spend millions on a new building but not thousands keeping the old ones up to scratch.

S_R

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:51 am

Major_Blink:
This is what life is like in Dalton Barracks, Abingdon


The Officers’ Mess needs work to comply with current fire legislation (est 70k), that money has not been found despite it being on a works services priority for the last two years. The consequence has been the closure of a complete wing. The Commanding Officer has to take the health and safety of his officers at risk. The decision point is about to be reached, where the CO has told the chain of command that unless rectification work is started in the next month 35 living-in single officers will be moved into private accommodation in Abingdon, (at a cost in the first 6 months that far exceed the work required to the Mess), needless to say there is rarely any hot water either.

The soldiers are in just as bad accommodation. Only one block is Grade 1, so 150 solders have the ‘jam tomorrow’ promised accommodation. The vast majority live in accommodation not changed since being built in 1932, except that no money has been spent since.

Let me give you just one example of the service we have to put up with and manage in terms of the soldiers expectations. New white goods were purchased under a budgetary funding line to provide new washing machines and dryers for every wing of every block. They arrived brand new, but when they were placed in the accommodation it was found that the plumbing and water pressure in the accommodation could not sustain their usage – so they were withdrawn and remain in our QM’s store! No money to update the plumbing.

We were informed at the beginning of this FY that all works services (ie infrastructure repair) was to be frozen within Abingdon (it actually was much more wide spread within the region). The impact of this was that simple repairs, loo seats, broken showers went un-repaired. I had to explain this to my soldiers. The position changed in the second half of the FY and we now have a slightly improved situation.

Finally the most disgraceful situation is that our medical centre is not fit for purpose. The Army Primary Health Care service has stated that the med centre it is not fit for its clinical need, yet monies needed for refurbishment or replacement do not exist. We have to employ a corporal to drive a mini bus of sick soldiers to Aldershot to be treated in Frimely Park instead. Yet both regiment are trying to generate fit soldiers for Iraq and Afgan next year. Commander Field Army has visited Abingdon, it remains 4 Div’s highest priority, yet all we see are aspirations and promises. I will not discuss the holes in the roads, no lighting across the camp, but guess what the chain of command’s solution is – they are trying to squeeze another Regiment in here in 2008!!

I visited this fine establishment not so long ago.

Correct me if I am wrong but I had been told that a major reason the refurbishment of Abingdon was stopped was that the utility infrastucture of the camp was so old and had so little money spend on it since it was originally put in (when was the camp opened?) that it would not cope with the upgraded accomodation or any of the new buildings required.

I also heard that the correct engineering solution would be to renew the infrastructure completely which was rejected as being too expensive. This of course puts the camp's rebuild state into limbo Rolling Eyes

Would it prove cheaper in the long run just to tear the place down and start again from stratch?

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:58 am

Timt to bomb MPs with JPEGs and MPEGs and flash a few DVDs around Fleet Street and Health & Safety Executive plus a few channels like CNN and Al-Jazeera

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:02 am

Yes

I think there needs to be a campaign set up, but should it be co-ordinated under BAFF

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:04 am

Don't bother trying to take a shower at RAF Uxbridge from about October onwards every year. At this time they do a routine check for Legionella virus and for the last three years they have had to shut down the whole system whilst it is 'flushed out'. Allegedly, in winter 05/06 there was no hot water in the barrack blocks for almost 3 months.

Not quite the same scale of some of the BBC pictures but indicative that we cannot even afford to maintain the crap we currently have to endure.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:22 am

Contrast and compare this thread with some of the comments on

www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/...=2154.html
and
www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/...43326.html

Now I am not saying there is a link but it does makes me wonder...

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:30 am

I was interviewed about this on the BBC R4 'Today' programme shortly after 7.30.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:30 am

Steven

Had a quick look and failed to see what you are getting at. What's your point?

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:35 am

One of the major problems in this area is that great portions of the estate budgets go to paying fees to works contractors like Carillion. In the old days, we had a lumbering public sector estate works organisation called PSA, which worked, if inefficiently, and the costs were more defined (maybe someone will tell me otherwise). Now we have apparent inefficiency and huge fees to the civilian contractors. That's why simple jobs end up costing £2k rather than £100, and why so many important maintenance jobs get prioritised down the calendar. So, how much of that £700M went in fees?

There is another issue with accommodation - charges. The grading system for charges does not allow a board to arrive at a simple opinion that accommodation is simply shite and should be 'ungraded' - eg no charges to pay. The penalty points system is quite comprehensive but rarely are enough points awarded to bring the grade and charges down to a level that matches the "would I want to live in this" criterion. There needs to be a minimum acceptable standard for accommodation, but that aside what really grates singlies (and this does really affect singlies rather than pads) is having to pay for substandard accommodation. I know of plenty of instances where singlies have been (relatively) happy to slum it in exchange for an extra £100 each month. Likewise when individuals are moved from ungraded accommodation into new Grade 1, they are mostly very unhappy.

So, MOD, my suggestion to you is reduce accommodation charges across the board, including for SFA, and waive charges for the substandard SLA. You will find that while the problem does not go away, there will be a lot less complaining and there might then be opportunities to achieve a better resolution than Z type across the board, which most servicemen will never see anyway.

I should add that the hapless unit QM is caught in the middle of all of this, with inadequate resources to achieve much at all. It is the MOD works and estate management system that is at fault, not the units tring to make the most of what they are given.

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:36 am

Interceptor:
My opinion?

Peeling paint and mould, broken doors and ripped carpets should be dealt with immediately by the system. Underinvestment is rife and is shameful.

Dirty baths? Clean it yourselves you fezzing bastards. Who do you think cleans my quarter?

Exactly what I was thinking!

Squaddie: "Look at my bath!"

MOD: "And...?"

BBC: "Ooooh look! That's terrible!"

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Re: Forces accomdation - General speaks out.

Post Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:57 am

It is good that this issue is being aired in public as it is clear that the politicians will not listen to reason and the only way to get the necessary funding is for senior military to go public.

Whilst there probably is a plan to upgrade all the accommodation over the next few years, what is criminal is the complete lack of investment for the last 20 years. As such both single and married accommodation has been allowed to deteriorate to such an extent that a greater capital investment is required now, rather than keeping on top of it each year.

The points and grading system for MQs is archaic and doesn't allow common sense to be applied. I had a year long battle to get my MQ downgraded from Grade 2 when the noise was unbearable as it is sandwiched between a v busy dual carriageway, a mainline railway and under an AAC flight path! Eventually persistence paid off but the reduction in charges is not retrospective and is only effective 3 months after the Board Of Officers has published its results!

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