Sorry, but you've kind of missed my point. I find it a bit rich when the most senior people issue trite phrases about how we should honour the military convenant and tut tut as to how appalling soldier's living conditions are yet happily see serviceable office accomodation be demolished only to have a new building put in its place. OK, the current office block may not be the 'gold plated' solution for LAND & AG but surely, in a tight financial climate (when there will never be enough money), the resources (cash) would be better spent on our soldier's living accomodation and accept slightly lower standard office space for HQ staff. After all, it is the HQ's (and Government) that are saying 'we need to do something about it'. My previous post was aimed at the hypocrisy within.

Have seen many posts on the BBC site from people saying "in their time they never saw any bad accomodation". Well I don't know where they were looking, as six months into Sandhurst on an RAMC visit we were show accomodation at Aldershot. I remember talking to one of the Officers about it being utter shite and how could they expect people to live there, to which he agreed and said it was a disgrace. Mind you the mess at Keogh wasn't much better either...

There is a big waste of money with how the MoD spends its money, when they built a new sgts mess in NI about 10 years ago the cost per mess room was a staggering £50k, (I cant remember the totals but the cost of the mess was something like £5m for 100 or so rooms) they were not en-suite, as a comparison the unit cost of travelodge room was £12k (cheap but well proven modular build).

To give some idea of the scale of this lunacy, the cost per unit of a JR married quarter at about the same time was £30-40k (around York). This was before PFI, now the cost would be maybe double....?

When the Army took over a certain RAF base north of York, I was involved in doing the pre-checks of plans, and doing the Board of Officers inspections when works were completed, we removed the RAF single room accomodation, replacing it with 6 man rooms, at a significant cost. Because the RAF accomodation was in excess of JSP's for JR's.

Being a lowly but well meaning SNCO my comments on this waste were ignored...

Ratcatcher

Huw Edwards has just reported on News24

Brought into question several times that serviceen pay less than their civvie counterparts. Personally I would contest this - my cousin in Sheffield lives in a house due for demolition (and so in the mid range of equivelent MoD grottyness) but pays just over £200 for a three bedroom house - with council tax thrown in.

How does this compare to MoD charges.

He also reported that the MoD is admitting that just under 50% of barracks living accomodation is of grade 4 quality, but they said they have a 1 billion pound, 10 year plan in place.

Whats this fkn mamby pamby Army on about. Just get on with it.

Yes, I understand prisoners probably get better accommodation and don't deserve it, but we're soldiers who should use prisoners for tgt practise.

When I joined my Regt we lived in tin shed spider blocks and 14 to a room and we loved it - still do. I even basha up in the garden, cook and brew on hexy, stag-on and challenge any civvi who dares to come near just to keep my routine up to scratch. Even go Hard Routine so use gas and eat cold food

Must admit I do have some modern things like "Real Tree Camo" suit etc.

BT

I just saw the same report. Some good points made, but unfortunately both the army and RAF wife failed to correct some of the incorrect statements made by the interviewers!

Comments along the lines of "You don't pay as much as a council tenant, so you shouldn't expect the same quality of accommodation" and "But you pay virtually nothing for the houses and get tax breaks...what more do you expect"!

Come on Beeb - get a grip and try checking your facts first!

How much of that will line the pockets of MHS crooks? Bugger all spent on getting quarters up to standard let alone blocks but welcome to contracting out!

Why not do a swap and put asylum seekers into Army barracks and have soldiers use these shiny new Group 4 facilities which the asylum-seekers keep burning down ? I mean when DPs arrived in Germany postwar they lived in barracks at former concentration camps like Dachau - no reason to put asylum seekers in city-centre accommodation The US barracks in Wiesbaden look nice - though one set - Camp Lindsey - was a former Wehrmacht Kaserne and when the Americans pulled out the developers moved in This one looks reasonable WIESBADEN

3 things:

1. I hope people posting their horror stories on here are replicatiing them on the BBC web page as well.(sorry I haven't a link to post - not yet anyway)

2. The British Army is the only one in NATO that moves its people around so frequently that owning your own home is problem. Now, taking aside issues of reality (like how does a married JNCO with a public duties bent, afford to buy a house that's handy for St James Palace or Windsor Castle), wouldn't most Pads like to be home owners, whose kids could get continuity of education and whose wives could have careers?

I just don't see why dragging families around a series of 2nd rate houses is preferable to this option?

3. The shiitte state of single accomodation is to some extent a problem to which senior officers (some of whom are now Generals) have contributed on the way up the career ladder, because they have always been ready to divert ££ away from maintenance or replacement of accomodation, in favour of sexy kit (or, IIRC, in favour of a new stadium in Aldershot).

The defence minister claims that 95% of married accommodation is standard 1 or 2. Bo**ocks. Most quarters on my patch are standard 4. About 2 years ago they sent an inspection team to review the accommodation, they decided that the quarters were in fact standard 2, we all asked how this came about as no work or improvements had been done. They, smiling informed us that the criteria had been changed, since we had a post office on site open 3 mornings a week under the new rules that made out homes standard 2??????????

Give him his due the CO tried to fight this no luck.

So, instant improvement to figures with the upgrade of about 200 houses for no cost, except to us with the increase in rent.

While I agree that the picture on the BBC was a bad choice the general standards in some accommodation is just about that bad. Visited a barracks not to long ago, it was clean but it was falling down, absolutely disgusting. You may be lucky and be in a nice new block but many are not!

Come on chaps, let's cut to the chase! Yes, we all know that there are mongy, mangy soldiers out there who would live in s*** even if offered a place in paradise. What do you expect when the Army insists on recruiting from sink estates in deprived areas (to keep wages down?).

The simple fact is that Army accommodation is awful. Single soldiers lives in squalor. Married soldiers, and their families, live in quarters that leave much to be desired. All this at a time when Government ministers live in luxury at the taxpayers' expense. David Blunkett, twice disgraced, for example, continued to enjoy a rent free house. Also, how much has been spent on the Prime Minister's accommadation and that of the Deputy PM (old fatty, punchy, half-wit Prescott)?

The fact is that politicians have absolutely no idea of public service. They want all they can get. Meanwhile, our boys and girls are paying with their lives.

Let's be grateful that we have, at last, senior officers who are prepared to speak out. Also, let us continue to publicise our grievances. Otherwise, who will know?

But he didn't say No either - which is about as good as saying we have when we know that they have not.

Its my understanding that MQ rent is being increased to match market rates over the next couple of years - the first increase happened with the last pay round and apparently left a number of pads no better off with the pay rise, and some worse off.

According to tonight's radio news nearly 50% of single soldier accommodation is Grade 4. The MOD didn't declare what percentage was Grade 1 - I bet its not high.

All of which puts the so called £5 billion allegedly being put into service accommodation over the next decade into context - its too little too slowly.

Just watched the unedited version of the General Viggers BBC TV interview, on the BFBS web-site www.ssvc.com/bfbs/tv/r...ports.htm. Worth a look and better than relying on the BBC's editing! A friend at LAND told me he came in off leave to give the interview. He talks about some of the good accomodation, and some of the poor - obviously the BBC ignored the first bit! Interesting what he says about the Government Ministers. Wonder if it is only the new barrack blocks they visit when they open? And odd to see the MoD advertising the interview on their website.

In the last 5 years i've lived in some s*** holes, and i've also lived in Z-type (very tasty, well worth the extra cash.) But i was shocked by some of the comments people posted on the BBC site.

I don't know where they do their shopping but, i'm pretty sure my mop and bucket can't fix my leaking window, fix the window thats been broken since we moved in, put handles back on the doors, fix the taps and shower, repair the knackered plaster and paint on the walls or reatach the lino to the floor in the corridor.

I'm not making excuses for the people out there who live in s*** because they're dirty bastards because, as we all know admin's not a place in China.

FQ rents are rising. I read through the latest AFPRB report and worked out that my military salary would have increased by 3% or so whereas my FQ rent would have risen 17%.

Personnel are being squeezed to pay for improvements that have not happened, err to pay for the Iraq war!

[quote="Stonker"]
I hope people posting their horror stories on here are replicatiing them on the BBC web page as well.(sorry I haven't a link to post - not yet anyway)
quote]

newsforums.bbc.co.uk/n...#paginator

Mine did not make it through the moderators, even though there was no swearing, ranting or bring me BLiars head on a pike, remarks.

[quote="Priam"]
I dunno if the BBC notify you 'you're comment posted/not posted'.

It may be just a matter of time, mate. I heard on the R4 evening news that this story has generated the single biggest response ever (or, maybe in the last year). Either way - it's a busy board: for good or ill, it's stirring people up.

I agree with all except for that part. The US Army has only just in the last year introduced a program to prevent similar movement, as admitted by themselves in Fiasco by Tom Ricks
Edited to realise that I read your post wrong and I should say that Tom Ricks supports your argument not the other guys. Sorry.