Patrolman, I have been telling ARRSE this for at lesat 10 days - you know it as you also have been involved on thesame thread _ When will JHQ Close?

No he is a good guy who takes not shiite from incompetants. You do your job and you are fine you screw up and you can kiss your aarse goodbye. This goes for all ranks not just green officers

And that style of management is good?

It certainly is not bad, robust maybe, but not bad.

Outstanding,

After reading a few of your (all too plenty) posts, I wonder whether or not you have ever served in military uniform. Robust leadership is exactly what is required at all levels and completely distinct from bullying. A good leader shouldn't care less whether he is liked or not, as long as he is respected. There is a huge difference.

Big Mac and fries, please.

Right well I will accept your take on that, I dont agree with you but that life too!

Hear hear. 704 posts in 6 weeks - FFS who has that much time (let alone useful things to say!)


I think we might have found the reason - have you graduated from Camouflage to Cadets yet, Outstanding?


(Mods - any chance of splitting this thread into a NAAFI Outstanding bashing thread and leaving the discussion of 19X sans his interventions?)

Nasch - I hear you, but we'll keep it here.

Please note that this is a serious forum and we most certainly aren't at home to Mr and Mrs Pointless Post here.

If you want to flame, do it in the NAAFI.

Outstanding - keep it on track or take your nonsense elsewhere.

So, to carry on the original intent, which brigade has the best future: 52 Bde or 19? It seems to me that 52 is on the up - providing the SLE and Lt Bns to real Bdes, whilst 19 (after its swansong this year) sits in province and does PO Trg. A long way to have fallen from grace from one of the 6 big-boy bdes to be overtaken in capability by 52 Bde. FAS - Heavy, Medium, non-existant.

Best you speak to a few people who know what is going on, as you clearly don't. Both of your comments in the quote above are b*llocks.

My emphasis - that's the whole point, isn't it - 52X isn't a real brigade - no CS or CSS. So, whilst 19X has the traditional problems of light forces (lack of firepower, protection, and mobility), plus the additional problem of not being 3X or 16X (and therefore not a 'sexy' choice for a light role deployment), it is (*) able to deploy as a coherent formation.

Incidentally, if a Bn from 52X is on SLE, presumably the CS and CSS has to be earmarked from another bde - which can hardly help overstretch problems.

(*) In theory, at least.

Not b0llocks, but educated reading between the lines:

1. Where will they be sitting? NI.
2. How many units will be away doing proper ops and how many sitting geographically close to a commitmnet for NIN? At best half and half.
3. Who in commitments will task units from mainland when there are underemployed pax sitting in NI? No one.
4. Where will all the theatre specific kit be sitting? Oh, that's right... NI.
etc etc

Part 2:

Heavy, Medium, Light: was 3, 2, 1 (not incl 16 Fairground Asslt). We now face 2,3, ?. The ? is 19 - you tell me what capability it will bring to the table - it certainly isn't intended to be a deployable manoeuvre Bde so where is the balance in that?
52X will be tasked with preparing their units for interesting stuff in sp of the warfighting Bdes, 19 won't.
Therefore you could argue that the great FAS rebalance is a lot of smoke and mirrors to hide the loss of a Bde (done to pacify our bretherin in light and dark blue who lost a lot as well).

Happy to hear the official side of the argument, but sitting in my small store that's what it looks like. 1033 for an old Mech Bde anyone?

You are still off track.

Firstly - brigade structure. In your Hy/Med/Lt comparison we actually go from 3 Armd + 3 Mech + 0 Lt + 16 Bde to 2 Armd + 3 Mech + 1 Lt + 16 Bde. You need to think in terms of deployable brigades. nasch above articulates this well. 19 Bde is a deployable brigade. Its HQ is structured as such, and it has its own CS and CSS units. 52 Bde doesn't. That is a massive difference.

You are wrong to suggest we have "lost" a brigade. 19 Bde will still be a manouevre brigade within 3 Div. The fact that is will be based in NI is irrelevent. It will not be roled in support of PSNI. Support to PSNI, if necessary, will come from the SLE.

As far as where it will be used and what capability it brings to the table. Where are we currently deployed, and where we are likely to be for the next few years? A joined up light role brigade will be very useable in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and in PSO roles wherever else T Blair decides he wants to send us.

Southern Ireland?

I think we gave up on that one in the 20s!

(Other than at Lansdowne Road of course)

Joined up? Without medics, air defence, battlespace management, with no Bde level training, not enough CS to guarentte each of its BG sp simultaneously, and no attribution above small scale? If you think that is joined up then my mistake. You are right 52 doesn't have it either, but 52 never had, 19 did. 52 is stepping up in capability, 19 stepping down.

Joined up? Without medics, air defence, battlespace management, with no Bde level training, not enough CS to guarentte each of its BG sp simultaneously, and no attribution above small scale? If you think that is joined up then my mistake. You are right 52 doesn't have it either, but 52 never had, 19 did. 52 is stepping up in capability, 19 stepping down.

Not far off the money.

Brigades didn't have organic air defence or medics before FAS. 19 Bde retains 40 Regt RA and 38 Regt RE as dedicated CS. 19 Bde is due to get a Bde CSS Bn. I don't see the difference between the "BattleSpace Management" capability of the core Bde HQ in a lt bde to a mech or armd bde.

My point remains the same. 19 Bde is structured and intended to deploy and operate, 52 Bde isnt.

And there is me thinking that the cloud punchers provided the BM capability within the HQ.

Back on thread:

No, it will stay as 19 bde (the job it gets may be shite!)

Quality of staff will remain as low as it is now.

42(NW) Bde? - Nah too much Hunting, Shooting and Fishing there!