Well we get in with the biggest game in town, and that ain't the EU, and never will be.

And just how do we do that?

I seem to recall the European Bankers administering the IMF who bailed us out under Harold Wilson's stewardship not so very long ago!

I seem to remember the USA being happy to treat Gerry Adams as royalty and US weapons blasting the hell out of us on OP BANNER while our so-called allies were busy G2'ing us from US Aircraft Carriers!

. . . will be interesting to see if he still holds this view when Turkey promises to turn over that huge oil line that runs through there!!!!!

Position on Turkey joining the European Union
Van Rompuy is a strong opponent of Turkey joining the European Union.

In 2004, he stated "Turkey is not a part of Europe and will never be part of Europe. An expansion of the EU to include Turkey cannot be considered as just another expansion as in the past". He continued "The universal values which are in force in Europe, and which are fundamental values of Christianity, will lose vigour with the entry of a large Islamic country such as Turkey

. . . . And Van Rompuy is against the entry of Turkey in the EU ? I did not know that but I already like the man ! . . .

Why ridiculous ? because he's a belgian ? the amount of slur coming from the UK and addressed at this poor guy who seems to be a very decent, hard working bloke is frankly amazing; if you aren't happy with the EU, especially after having knocked on its door for ages, just get the fcuk out and stop moaning FFS !

Iolis,

In the UK, we vote for individuals. These individuals are often members of groups of MP's (called "party"s). Whichever group is largest get's the power to appoint ministers. That's the system and has been for ages.

No you dont! You vote for people called MPs who exercise no more influence than you do. They will say, do and vote in Parliament exactly as they are instructed to do by an elected Monarch!

The EU leader is appointed by the the heads of the EU countries governments.

We have already established that.

Q; When did we give assent for the creation of a permanant presidency?

You gave assent to it in a referendum in 1973 when the public voted to remain in the Union on the terms renegotiated by the United Kingdom.

A; Never, the post is democratically illigitimate

The post is legitimate under the Treaty signed by the United Kingdom and ratified under its own constitutional arrangements

Q; When did we give democratic mandate for Gordon Brown to vote for the Head of the EU?

You did not give Gordon Brown a mandate. In fact, you did not vote for Gordon Brown because we do not vote for Prime Ministers, they are appointed. But there again, in the United Kingdom, Manifestos are little more than the means by which political parties are propelled into power and then abandoned in favour of policies which were never disclosed to the electorate. Such has been the state of 'democratic' representation in Britain since political parties were invented!

A; Never. He simply took that power AGAINST a manifesto pledge to have a referendum And yes LISBON IS THE SAME A THE CONSTITUTION!

See above!

Q; When did we give democratic mandate for someone to speak for us on foreign affairs?

See above!

A; Never. There is no mandate; the post is democratically illiogitimate.

No it is not - it is a post created by treaty and is quite legitimate.

Q; When did we give a democratic mandate for the pan european justice system?

See above

A; Never.

Whatever you may think of the EU and some of it's good points, and yes, the UK democracy has been shredded by labour, fundamentally, the EU as it stands has no democratic legitimacy.

Yes, there we treatys before lisbon, but the even if there was no prior pledge, the EU consitutuion / lisbon treaty is such a large change in the way we are governed, that democracy mandates that the people MUST be consulted.

The EU needs to be dismantled and rebuilt with the will of the people being the primary driving force, not an inconvenience.

I believe it is in our interests to be in a 'big club' like the EU, but only if it is democratic. Until the EU is torn apart and rebuilt, I will take every opportunity presented to me to knock the EU.

You gave assent to it in a referendum in 1973 when the public voted to remain in the Union on the terms renegotiated by the United Kingdom.

Are you talking about the referendum in 1975?

Oh dear, I stand corrected!

No you dont! You vote for people called MPs who exercise no more influence than you do. They will say, do and vote in Parliament exactly as they are instructed to do by an elected Monarch

You gave assent to it in a referendum in 1973 when the public voted to remain in the Union on the terms renegotiated by the United Kingdom.

The post is legitimate under the Treaty signed by the United Kingdom and ratified under its own constitutional arrangements

Manifestos

See above!

It is not the EU that lacks democracy - far from it, it is a damned sight more democratic than anything we have on offer in the United Kingdom.

I think one would have to be completely blind not to realise that people hold opposing views but I am afraid that I would rather place my trust in the EU and its institutions than any single so-called 'representative' that we elect in this country, not one of whom is fit to be employed as a cleaner or to be paid in anything other than washers!

....................and you really think European Politicians are any better?

When did that change? By what elected monarch?


I was 5 then, I didn't agree to anything. Thats why we were promised a referendum this time round.


Theres that referendum thing again, I didn't agree to anything.


Are the one thing the House of Lords WILL NOT VOTE AGAINST, as that is a covenant with the voters, in other words it will be honoured. This one wasn't so is illegitimate.


Exactly, et all....


You are kidding right? Do you know anything about the EU and its offices?


Then you are an idiot who is part of the problem rather than the solution.

So long as you let powers creep towards Brussels without complaining you simply push the trolly along.

You are just copping out or arguing the toss because you are bored, either way you are a disgrace.

Get an education!

As Iolis has been highlighting continously the institutions of the EU are far more democratic than our own, an EU citizen has more recourse to liberty and justice than a British subject.