"The CIA has predicted...." now that's a funny line.....they wouldn't be able to predict on what day Christmas will be so leave the CIA out of that if you want to be taken seriously.

And Van Rompuy is against the entry of Turkey in the EU ? I did not know that but I already like the man !

Finally, I think you should stop harbouring any hope that there is still "a special relationship" between the UK and the USA. Since 2003, you have been shafted time and again being Uncle Sam's bitch, losing ground all around the world just to be in his good books and you still haven't understood....time to realize the Channel is actually narrower than the Atlantic....

It's not like anybody had a vote on either, which is the problem!

Oh the irony

Article 15(5) TEU

Herman Van Rumpuy. President (designate) European Council:

Article 18(1) TEU

Baroness Catherine Ashton of Upholland High Representative (Designate) of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy:

Only so it's handy to come over and give the French a slap when they need it (or to liberate them/defend their country for them, more recently).

What an original line, congratulation, you have outdone yourself; you want the link to "French military victories" Google bomb or you already have it ?

Now you've got it of your chest, think about the reality; you want to keep on doing what you are told by the White House or start acting for yourself ?

Did you get to vote for your current Foreign Secretary? Or was he appointed by those you did get to elect?

The President of the European Council and the High Representative were elected by qualified majority vote by the heads of state of government - people who were elected by democratic franchise across the Union.

In fact, the system is rather more democratic since at national level, one single individual has monarchial power to appoint whoever the hell he likes as Secretary of State - that is a British Prime Minister.

Tell me just how less democratic the Union has been when compared to the method of selection of Government Ministers in our own country?

I'd happily fcuk the Yanks and you lot over the Channel off. Unfortunately neither will happen and we've already lost the best friends we ever had in the world because of it.

Mate, you do realize how influenced you are yourself?

What's your point? The EU is democratic or our current system of government is better? My point is they both suck.

We want the chance to act for ourselves thats why we want fuck to do with the EU.

Seconded!

Our relationship with the United States differs very little from that which existed between Cuba and the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s when the USA and UK were content to condemn the status as the former as a 'client state' of the latter.

It has been a one-sided abusive relationship for far too long and it is time we grew up, ditched our zenophobia and moved on.

Yes, Britain has been shafted. The last time Britain held sway over the USA was when Thatcher was in power. Saying that the last time Britain held real sway in Europe was when Thatcher, with her armour plated handbag, was in power.

Though there remains a special connection between Britain and the US. There's the history and the language and trillions of investments between the two countries. Whilst we have allowed ourselves to be shat on from a great height by America in the past decade or so, the EU Franco-German alliance has also shat on us from a great distance, beginning with de Gualle.

Three questions are:

1. What role will the USA play internationally in the next century?

2. Will the European project survive the next century?

3. What is best for Britain?

Last edited by Contrarian on Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

We've already got a PM that the Country didn't elect so Brussels obviously reckons that we'll play ball on this one.

Fcuk 'em.

But if you did vote for him and so did the rest of the EU then surely that would put him in a prime position to really create the EUSSR as he would have a bigger mandate than the various heads of state?

Explain the one sided and abusive bit for us please?

We've had our differences over the years, but I hold more store in our relationship with the US than I ever will with France or Germany today. Lets not forget our European partners who have left us out to hang economically on more than a few occasions in the last 30 years. But the US has stood by us when we really needed them. Or do you have examples of when they have left us out to dry? Post Suez of course, but they dropped us, the French and Israel as well then.

And just how do we do that?

We have no motor industry. We have no aircraft Industry. We have no shipbuilding Industry, our heavy industry has shrunk to insignificance and we are no longer the gateway to the world money markets.

Just how do we export and compete with what we no longer produce.

We have under successive governments been mismanageed into the ground. We have become a third-rate insignificant world power that makes and exports next to nothing and with armed forces reduced to little more than that of a defence force and turned our country into a virtual open prison for our subjects!

How does this Island Kingdom stand by itself as a viable economic entity?

The fact is that no matter how much we may want to, we simply cannot do so and in our heart of hearts we all know it.

I am not running my country down. That has already been done by those we entrusted with its care!

Last edited by Iolis on Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

Iolis,

In the UK, we vote for individuals. These individuals are often members of groups of MP's (called "party"s). Whichever group is largest get's the power to appoint ministers. That's the system and has been for ages.

The EU leader is appointed by the the heads of the EU countries governments.

Q; When did we give assent for the creation of a permanant presidency?

A; Never, the post is democratically illigitimate.

Q; When did we give democratic mandate for Gordon Brown to vote for the Head of the EU?

A; Never. He simply took that power AGAINST a manifesto pledge to have a referendum And yes LISBON IS THE SAME A THE CONSTITUTION!

Q; When did we give democratic mandate for someone to speak for us on foreign affairs?

A; Never. There is no mandate; the post is democratically illiogitimate.

Q; When did we give a democratic mandate for the pan european justice system?

A; Never.


Whatever you may think of the EU and some of it's good points, and yes, the UK democracy has been shredded by labour, fundamentally, the EU as it stands has no democratic legitimacy.

Yes, there we treatys before lisbon, but the even if there was no prior pledge, the EU consitutuion / lisbon treaty is such a large change in the way we are governed, that democracy mandates that the people MUST be consulted.

The EU needs to be dismantled and rebuilt with the will of the people being the primary driving force, not an inconvenience.

I believe it is in our interests to be in a 'big club' like the EU, but only if it is democratic. Until the EU is torn apart and rebuilt, I will take every opportunity presented to me to knock the EU.

Well we get in with the biggest game in town, and that ain't the EU, and never will be.

I seem to recall the European Bankers administering the IMF who bailed us out under Harold Wilson's stewardship not so very long ago!

I seem to remember the USA being happy to treat Gerry Adams as royalty and US weapons blasting the hell out of us on OP BANNER while our so-called allies were busy G2'ing us from US Aircraft Carriers!