Like the infamous Sun letter, the story on bonuses is just the spark plug.

The fuel for the outrage bus is the wide-ranging issue of equipment shortages, underfunding and idiotic decisions like trying to scrap TA training for six months.

As a serpent working in Deutschland I am one of the very lucky few. Yes my basic pay is a laugh, currently about £20k, but I am lucky in getting the rent free energy free house. That does make a hell of a difference. The CS know that ex-forces personnel like me after 34 years have a pension, so they are not going to pay me say £30k a year with my £22k pension on top. No when I staterd I was offered £17, and took it once I realised the package attached would 'make up the difference'. My bonus has been about £400 for the last 3 years, and I was made to feel that I should be really grateful to my LM for getting it. So if the average bonus is about £1000, then who the hell is getting all the money!!

Am puzzled by that statement, how can you fall below the national minimum wage

It is a legal requirement of employment therefore each job must be allocated an hourly rate that is legal

Perhaps I am being a bit dense, I am sure it is right

Try £850 (before tax) for a C1


a) CS on S2O tours do on average 16+ hours every day (incl. weekends), they do not get paid overtime for this (which if you work out the overtime rate + weekend overtime rate comes to a hell of a lot more than the allowance paid.)
b) CS volunteer for these roles
c) If CS did not volunteer then there'd be a whole lot more pressure on the Armed Forces to provide manpower
d) The figure you quoted also includes a clothing allowance in order to buy suitable kit, we don't get anything other than PPE issued.
e) The allowance is also in recognition of the harsher working and living environment, CS are not trained for this like the military are.

Do a search on Jim30's posts, he's already covered this subject in far greater detail and more eloquently than I can be arsed to do.

Do your research before kicking off!

I don't know enough about the ins and outs of the bonuses that these civvy pen-pushers get to comment on that but last year I can remember seeing some internal magazine called 'Defence Focus' I think which is purely aimed at the gimps in the MoD offices and there was a whole article on how many OBEs/MBEs etc had been dished out to these bods for doing spells in theatre.

I've seen acts of extreme courage where the bods involved have got nothing more than a certificate from the Brigadier, so how they defend giving anything to a civil servant who sits in Lashkar Gar or Baghdad for a bit.

Then again the lads who have served in the Queen's uniform can at least look themselves in the mirror and know they toed the line; can these losers at the MoD say the same?

God, I'm a prejudiced cnut!!!

You said it, but omitted blinkered and opinionated. Next time you pick up "Defence Focus" look closer under the title, it says "FOR EVERYONE IN DEFENCE".

Meridian - I think the Union statement refers to the fact that the MOD was so late in sorting out last years pay settlement, that by the time it came through 6 months late, the minimum wage had gone up, and many of the lowest paid staff were on a payscale that was below the new wage level.

I think he had it covered calling himself a cunt

Pretty much…

As it happens I discussed this issue on BFBS Forces Radio around 1320Z today. This thread was very helpful, thanks to Jim30, OldSnowy and others, although I took a similar line in an interview at breakfast time before I had seen anything here.

I did manage to work in the phrase "pie eating pen pushing civil servants" . But the line I took was a good deal more nuanced than that.

Agreed but I can't help myself pointing out the blatently obvious; It's what makes being a Staff Officer enjoyable.....

Think what you like mate, but that particular circular is a waste of money. Money which would be better spent elsewhere. It is CS centric, despite proclaiming to be for everyone in defence. Ignoring the rose tinted view of the world that CS seems to have of their standing in the MOD, most squaddies tend not to think in terms of working in 'defence' but rather tend to consider themselves as being in the Army. Most of us acknowledge that there are is another Armed Force outside of the Army that sail about in boats or something and there might even be another organisation that all wear the same clothes as each other (yet to be confirmed) but that really is as far as it goes, in terms of the Armed Forces. Average Tom on the ground doesn't care for you or recognise a need for you, all he sees is his kit turning up late, beaurocracy he doesn't need and enforcement of legislation that hinders his ability to do his job and most of the issues that concern him have a CS somewhere in the grand scheme of things. I don't defend that POV but I understand and empathise with it. I also understand the frustration in seeing you get a bonus however big or small. If your remuneration package isn't good enough, guess what? But bonuses should be a no - no.

Ho, ho! But I will bite all the same.

This includes the 'gimps' who go out to theatre to help develop and deploy vital, life saving armour upgrades and other force protection technologies.

OK so the S2O folks are not in the same danger as the lads and lasses at the pointy end, but everyone has their part to play. Sometimes the ones who make an outstanding contribution get a gong. What's wrong with that?

I've had CS colleagues who have been mortared and shot at whilst out fitting UOR kit - and with nothing to show for afterwards it but a nice sun tan.

Some of us GIMPS left half of our bodys in soding Iraq whilst serving and now work for less than 16K so smoke my bloke.

Thought the military still paid operational bonus? Which isn't even performance related...

More seriously, if you want to improve support to the front line, you can't remove every last incentive from those who work in the MoD. Sounds like a bit of a non-story to me. I'm a bit disappointed the Tory's brought this up - would cutting this money improve the MoD?

Its a common theme with Liam Fox, he needs to wind his neck in because he is likely the next SoS Defence.

Day 1, right you bunch of lazy pen pushing wan_kers
Day 2, oh I see, ah, yes
Day 3, the CS are supporting our brave boys

I also had the idea there was now a performance related element in the salaries of 2*s and above? Happy to be told I'm talking merde.

C_C

Maybe the CoC should explain what would happen if we all fucked off home then? Kit wouldn't turn up at all.

Not to mention that also have senior military ranks who don't have a good enough understanding of the procurement process and so end up making bad decisions and/or rushing things in the early stages which result in delays (not the sole offenders - there are senior CS who are just as bad, well worse actually because they SHOULD know the processes!)

No, its true but I'm not wholly familiar with how it works. I am sitting exceptionally close to a whole raft of 2*/3* outer offices. I may wander across when its time to get a brew and see if I can get a short answer.

Why is this thread full of CS dribbling on about how little they are paid? Were you not switched on enough to ask the recruiter how much the pay was before you signed the dotted line?

I am not trying to de-cry the CS but come on, everyone knows its a low paid job so trying to justify a cash bonus with excuses of low pay kinds of falls upon deaf ears.

And I will not even go into those on here who try to use CS deployments in support of combat troops as an excuse for the bonus. This bonus is not designed to compensate for operational deployments, there are many different allowances and cash incentives for that. This one is meant to be 'performance related'.

I won't go into the reasons for the bonus, numerous CS have quite clearly explained on here why they get it rather than a pay rise. However, rightly or wrongly, in the current climate of cash shortages this is not, and never will be what people on here claim to be a 'non-story'. As you can see on the TV and papers, and hear on the radio, it very much is a story.