Pilot not qualified to perform manoeuvre that led to crash.

www.telegraph.co.uk/ne...pline.html

Just waiting for Feedtheyak to start moaning about the bad discipline from the army in regards to that idiot Glenton, because the RAF never do anything naughty!

Shame that the pilots stupidity ended in death though.

33 Squadron are being hauled over the coals over this crash.

Again.

After listening to the cockpit audio recordings on the news I'm not at all surprised.

tactical manoeuvres were "excessive in number and irregularity".


I'm a civvy but surely the whole point of tactical maneuvres is that they are irreguarly unpredictable.....I may be wrong, who am I to crticise?

It's one thing to fly into the danger zone when people are shooting at you and doing their best to kill you, to do it on a routine training flight is totally uneccesary and gets people killed needlessly.

I wonder just what these plunging standards of 'administration' which the Coroner reports upon.

The RAF have always been fluffy when it comes to 'right and wrong' - normally aircrew bully everyone else into submission because of their trainng costs. RAF are spineless in enforcing criteria, this case proves it.

Did RAF Benson fail their Service LSI/ARUs ? (NO RAF unit EVER fails these - they get a repeat 'observation')

If the checking, audit and governance procedures were not in place then no matter how much this RAF spokesman says 'things have ichanged/mproved' it does not take away their culbability - a passenger gets into any aircraft totally dependant on the aircrew. That young soldier should not have to get into a 'copter with gung-ho boy racers.

If the corporate goverance checks were not in place, and others (esp soldiers) died as a result, sack everyone responsible for these checks, consider criminal action against them and strip all pensions from those who have left the Services subsequently (and I predict there will be many).

This will focus personal responsibility on the Chain of Command and how it can bite them !

...a young infantryman died here - who in the RAF will carry the can ?

Probably no-one (again)

A shitload of truth in what you say there, matey.........

The RAF way is to put 100% of the blame on the dead pilots, it's always been thus.

No it doesn't. The C130 shot down out of Balad? The Nimrod over AFG? I take it you are referring to the CH47/MoK incident and then making a sweeping generalisation. The MoK BoI could have been handled better, but I am also reassured that recruits at Halton don't routinely shoot themselves in the back of the head, that Iraqis don't beat themselves to death whilst in RAF custody whilst the CO walks away with a DSO and that RAF units don't hold impromptu swimming galas for miscreant youths it detains.

That may be the RAF way but it is not the way the civvie lawyers will see it.

If I train a HGV and he passes my course to do the task then I, the Trainer, am at fault if he fails a key compentence (ie overloading his vehicle, jackniifing and causing accidents).

If I train a chef and he passes my course to do the task then I, the Trainer, am at fault if he fails a key compentence (ie he poisons you).

If I train a clerk and he passes my course to do the task then I, the Trainer, am at fault if he fails a key compentence (ie he screws you pay up and you lose out financially).

If I train a Infanteer and he passes my course to do the task then I, the Trainer, am at fault if he fails a key compentence (ie he cannot use his weapon and is a liabilty to his section).


The individual may be at fault for one-off incidents but if, the Coroner reports a general failing then, the training sytem iwhich is there to protect everyone fails - then the CoC iare responsible for systematic faults,

That young soldier did NOTHING wrong, he TRUSTED the CoC - if it was your son shouldn't SOMEONE be held accountable for these 'failures'?

Best you sit at the back and listen then. For a change.

Utter, utter, utter shite. PM me if you want to know why my viewpoint is thus.

Bollocks - what a damnfool statement to make . He was flying beyond his capabilities and authorisation in an aircraft that lacks the agility and power for such high-energy demands. Clear case of pilot error. Whilst there may well be systemic failures (some hint on R4 the pilot was tasking after recent training which is odd - but this reporting could cover a multitude of scenarios) this is still a case of bad sticks and poles.

Put it this way - if this was a bus driver and your kids were killed and injured in a crash like this where would the blame lie?

Sorry, I know this is harsh but people's lives are not there to be played with

Odo

Last edited by Odo_de_StAmand on Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

Mull of Kintyre crash… fucked up wokka, blame the pilots.

Absoloute rubbish. You are talking utter pish. If your logic followed through, every driving instructor whose former pupil crashed would be in nick.

I am sorry if I did not make it clearer. If I was a(eg BSM ) driving instructor I am required to explain respnsibilities that come with that license (Ie speeding, consuming alcohol, MOTetc etc). That is one level.

The next level is more important because they gave the authority to grant BSM that licence. They are responsible for checking my own qualifications, procedures, checks &compliance. The Authorisning authority (eg RAF) ensure we are compliant with specific safeguards - we could not have BSM giving Joe Bloggs ta licence to fly a Jumbo jet - the safeguards exist to protect us.

MOD/Parliament requires all authorising organisations (egBSM) to check that statutory requirements are in place and followed.

In this case we put a 17 year old soldier in the trust of a RAFpilot (nd co-pliot) and aircrew whose training, maturity and actions caused his death.

So, no-one to blame then, just pilot error -I think not.

The Coroner sees the failures of the system, let's not gloss over those.

A 17 year old soldier is dead and HE was certainly NOT at fault - but someone was. If the pilot had lived then what do YOU think would have hapened ?

Will anyone be punished for this ? - not a chance.

At the end of the day those soldiers entrusted themselves to a crew who were obviously out of there depth and should'nt have pulled the stunts they did it was not a tragic accident, it was a failure and one of the pilots has to live with the knowledge of what he did its bad enough the Septics killing us off but when the crabs start doing the same and then try to excuse it then we know we are in trouble