YOU MEAN I CAN'T WHINGE ON ARRSE ANYMORE !!!!!!! HEH, I WAS ONLY DOING A TEMP BREAK FROM WHINGING NOT A PERMANENT ONE....

AT LEAST GIVE MSR ONE LAST CHANCE TO MODUR8 DA 4UM ONF MOR

The MOD comment is disengenuous to say the least. It implies that operational spending will be unaffected ergo the rest of the spending is non-operational therefore non-essential. This suggests you have a TA where you only train for operations, presumably a matter of months before you go. All the other time (four years) you are not paid and do no training.

My view is that if the above is true it will be the end of the TA. Who would join? Or have I missed something.

If these measures are neccessary then really the money should be coming from elsewhere within the military... the stuff thats really froth, Kings Troop, Public duties, Horse of the year show, possibly Adventerous Training.

I think closing down operational units for 6 months is folly, because many of them wont reopen.

trotsky

Indeed, I fear you are not too far wrong... I fear I'm starting to feel a bit tinfoil hat on this, but there's been a few people on here forecasting a scorched earth policy from the current shower before they get forceably ejected from power.

I guess this is very very breaking news, but I'm surprised no-one else has picked up on this.

I really can't see how even the smarmiest tw@ PR type in MoD could say with a sincere face that this wouldn't have a crushing impact.

Trotsky
That is what seems curious. The inefficiency and slack budgeting in the regular system makes me a little vexed that the first slash is in the MTD budget.

ET

I totally agree. This is dangerous territory. Without the TA how is the Army going to function effectively? How many NRPS, FTRS mobilised soldiers are working in this 'one army' now? And when that dries up? what then? Army medical services??? Are they not massively buoyed up by TA medic units? The end line is the army without the TA will struggle massively. I could go on...

This government is a disgrace. They are only seeing a foot infront of them. How do they expect TA regiments to surrvive this? 6 months is a good as the chop. If the hierachy of a regiment start dropping out due to loss of interest then a regiment is as good as dead. In 6 months a regiment will have no new recruits, people with stalled careers and faces like a bulldog likcing p*** off a nettle.

I hope the media tear into this and into the government!

They will already be preparing the 'priority to the front line' argument and hoping that the press will buy it and not look deeper at the implications. Hopefully, as the TA are not a hot media topic (because they don't fight in Afghanistan do they?) this whole thing will blow over in a matter of days and the government can go back to the important business of clinging to power.

In the mean time we will be expected to retain soldiers, the vast majority of who have, are or will contribute to ops, who have had career progression halted and a useful income stream dried up and who, suddenly, have a lot of free time on their hands to start doing something else.

Barking.

Well I hate to be even by inference defending this intellectually, morally and ethically bankrupt so-called executive, and agree they are responsible for the overall lack of funding HOWEVER....
I wish I could be convinced that the regular element have not run for cover and slashed the MTD budget as an easy fix that does not affect them.
The amount of MTD money is actually small compared to the salary bill; I know savings cannot be taken in year, but why are we 25(!!) brigadiers and 75(!!) full colonels OVER establishment. Taking that by my calculation would generate over £15-20 million pa 10/11 and beyond. A lot of MTDS!

cant see any of this mentioned in the review earlier this year but can any of us be truly surprised by what these maniacs do in their party's death throws


Strategic Review of the UK's Reserve Forces

A quick lesson: the Operational Peacekeeping Fund (what was CPF) pays for anything attributable to ops. Therefore any training as prep for ops is paid by the Reserve.

The Army is 600 Majs over establishment so watch out the FTRS - they'll be wasted out sooner rather than later. the manning levels are under immense scrutiny.

The TA is on tretcherous ground. For value-added they are not cost effective with the best units mobilising circa 12% of the establishment year on year. Its a case of Regs or TA going and its fairly clear where the pain will be laid.

Quite frankly some of the old and bold need culling to bring down the salary overheads and then there may be some money for the 'worker bees'.

This is actually not as bad as it seems considering that the TA has (or did have) a turnover of 25-30% for a variety of reasons and that this meant that if a recruit was still in after 3 years he was not going to 'turnover' and was likely in for life. It also means that at any one time something like 1/4 of the 'book' strength is (or were) not fully trained. How do you train somebody with no MTDs?
This figure is a credit to the TA considering that it does not include those who have returned from ops and those about to go. If the TA is to continue to provide soldiers for ops then it must continue to be trained. Let's hope that The Times has got this wrong

Last edited by Ulster_Rifleman on Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

This is all a bit shocking. TA 1908-2009 RIP

CHEERS WRITE IT ON THE TITLE LIKE IT MEANT SOMETHING THAT DESERVED TO BE SAID OUTLOUD !!

Even before we get into the world of SDRs, and culling surplus Majors (and there are a surprising amount of 'surplus' Brigadiers and above, as well), you have to realise two things.

Firstly, getting rid of people - however you do it - is not cheap, and not fast. To 'lay off' an Officer or Soldier takes time, and costs - redundancy, resettlement, etc. So, no point even thinking about that if you MUST save money NOW.

Secondly, almost all MOD costs are already committed - equipment contracts, wages, rates, power, utility, fuel, food, costs, etc. There is very little indeed in the Army's budget (and in the case of the TA these decisions are made by the Army, and NOT the MOD. Different beasts) that can be used to change in-year spending. The only areas you can hit are those that spend in 'cash' terms - traditionally, therefore, areas to hit are external training (already pretty much banned), T&S (already heavily controlled), Stationery and IT purchases (already cut to the bone and beyond) or - TA pay. Stopping that stops 'real' money going out. Expect to be hammered.

Don't blame the Army - they are doing what they have to, to keep Ops going, with insufficient funds. Closing the King's Troop and sacking Majors sounds good, but it would COST money over the next two to three years, not SAVE money now. And it's now we are living for - hand to mouth style.

Depressing, I know.

U_R unfortunately I do not think the Times has this wrong, and OITO you are correct regarding the reserve (CPF); however it has now been capped at £735 (I think) so standby for more pain since all the UOR comes off it, which is significant given how utterly incompetent both the MOD AND the services are at procurement (in a PLC they would be sued by shareholders).
You are a right regarding majors and 50 Lt Cols are overborne as well.

**** it I am going to use the time to learn to play the piano.

Anyone got £430 spare so I can do an OU course in French?????? Do they have a forces territorial?

So you'll be aware that many (including disappeared top scientists) believe the vaccine is a bio weapon which will wipe out millions of people then.
But then many believe Elvis works at Asda and Michael Jackson is in Spain.

Mais non, but the Gendarmes have a Reserve

Trotsky

You mean to say that they aren't??

This, however, does have the hallmarks of Whitehall expediency stamped all over it.

Straight after the Tory Conference, so their coverage and opinion will be minimised, and on the worst news-day of the week. Trying to bury bad tidings anyone?

Ketchup.