Following on from the RB44 thread, we can't be the only county who has procured total lemons? Admittedly, we have had a few in recent decades, but there must be other countries out there with vehicles that never moved, rifles that didn't work as advertised and clothing that left a lot to be desired. Can anyone think of any to make us all feel a little better?

Sudan?

French Lebel rifle - design flaws. Some target shooters now say this is rubbish but I think its problems lay in combat use so I think it is true to say. (No jokes about a white flag always popping out of it - I'm not much of a poilu basher!)

Germany - Prussian & Bavarian officers. (Mad and couldn't even bomb Hitler from 5 feet away.)

Well, didn't the americans have massive problems with their M16s when they were first introduced in Vietnam? (I believe that due to poor manufacturing, some of the rifles wouldn't fire).

Canadian Ross Rifles in WW1. Very accurate at long range but prone to jamming and several other fairly serious problems.

Not quite right there matey
Rifle was fine, the bean counters changed the composition of the propellant in the rounds and this meant that
one) it didn't have the same punch/killing range
two) the round had room behind the head for moisture to pool and foul the interior
three) it was rushed into service with inadequate training on maintenance for the troops

Given that the Lebel was the first smokeless magazine rifle on the block, I think we can cut it some slack. The Foreign Legion were using them right up to the 1920s so can't have been that much of a dog...

The Canadian Ross was a brilliant target rifle, but was never going to be squaddie proof in the Trenches in WW 1. There were so many design changes to this one they ran out of stars and hashes in the marking scheme..

The Italian Carcano - (along with the Iytie "Red Devil" grenade) is however well out of the bottom of the design barrel. How/why Oswald chose to use one of these to slot Kennedy is one of life's little mysteries...

I would also differentiate between Prussian and Bavarian officers...

Prussian Officers are generally nails. I remember going to meet a Bundeswehr officer of Prussian extraction - He did not have a chair in his office as he considered that sitting down spoilt the creases in his trousers.He did all his staff work (which was impeccable) standing at a small shelf...

Bavarians are 100% lunatics. Pi$$ed most of the time, like building fantastic castles and are completely unintelligable to the rest of the German speaking world...

It didn't help the M16 that after it's introduction rumour spread that it didn't need oiling either!

The USMC's Osprey's been getting some flak, though the jarheads seem happy enough with it...

Well just looked it up (after my previous innacuracy, should have used google), and apparently the troops initially weren't issued cleaning kits because of its supposed ease of maintenance. Madness.

Has any other country bought SA80, or AFV 432?

I'll bet they thought all their birthdays came at once. Up until the first stoppage that is.

I thought they took it a step further saying that the rifle was 'self cleaning' due to the original design of the AR-15 having a chrome lined barrel and receiver. Also, didn't we use the M16 before the septics? I think they were issued to 'them' for use in Borneo and that the USAF had them before the US Army.

I think that we prevailed upon Botswana to buy some SA 80?

It was the AR-15 in Borneo, used by SF and Patrol coys

SA80 also went to the Romanian Navy

Equipment c*** ups - nothing wrong with the design, just the destination - An Iso container full of lawn mowers turning up in shaibah Log Base - Iraq - Giggles.

We had a black Ford Escort sat in Old Port Barracks vehicle park on Granby for several months. No one admitted it was theirs and it didn't move an inch the entire operation except to go back on the boat!

I remember being out in SA with some of the GBQ boys. They could break a polished ball who did a good job of turning thei MV76's into scrap metal.

Zimbabwe you will be pleased to hear.
I don't think they were bought as such, more like a gift from HM Govt in the guise of 'Aid'.

Apparently Jamaica uses them as well.

US Army's M247 "Sergeant York" Divisional Air Defence (DIVAD) vehicle.

Starts with Reagan turning the money taps on in 1980 and Service chiefs being asked what they need; Chief of Staff (Army) points at the ZSU-23-4 and says "want that one!"

So, to get a quick, cheap, low-risk solution, they take a stack of proven kit and put it together. Chassis is from the reliable, proven M48 tank; guns are 40mm Bofors, which have an excellent track record: radar is from the F-16 fighter, fairly new but has been shown to work well.

And it all goes horribly wrong at vast cost, chewing through over a billion dollars in three years (and these were the early 1980s, when a billion dollars was still a lot of money) to get them ninety vehicles that were only ever used as target hulks on bombing ranges.



There are more, just for the US Army (the RAH-66 Comanche helicopter is a good example: twenty years in development, binned in pre-production with billions down the drain building a radar-proof helicopter to look for insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan) but suffice it to say, we're not the only nation to get it expensively wrong in defence procurement...