OFH...Are you being facetious?
The question was about civvy st and how we see it? Not about how we behaved in the Army. Besides when we joined we knew that we were giving up certain rights and so got on with our jobs, our expectations revolved around the unit operating efficiently...We don't have a choice about civvy st do we?? We therefore have the right to complain when needed...But not too loudly you undrstand! Ssshhh??

Facetious? Me? Perish the thought.

And, we have to write quietly too, lest the new National Socialist Party are reading our mail.

But I tend to agree with you about workers. I admit that here, most are ex service or dependents of, so not too bad. And the civilian managers are pretty ok. It's 't'others that grip my excretia.

Something that irritates me - squaddies who leave and start working in an office without coming to terms with the fact that they are no longer steely-eyed dealers of death, but just office workers, exactly like everyone else sitting nearby.

They make huge mileage banging on about team building skills on interview, and then when joining said team think it is clever to disrupt everything while mistakenly thinking they are in some way superior.

The days when you could respect yourself are over, mate. It is their environment, they created the tone, you volunteered to join so just blend in and accept the fact that you are one of them.

You are now a metrosexual, centrally heated, air-conditioned, rain protected, weak, soft handed nonce office worker - deal with it.

So for heavan's sake get out of there, and do a decent job. Put stuff up, knock stuff down, mend stuff, make stuff, cut stuff up, dig a hole or milk a cow, just do something useful and satisfying that has a vestige of human dignity to it.

Otherwise you WILL morph into the fat cow sitting opposite or her mincing homosexual pal. It may already be too late.

WAH!

Since demob end of 92, I've worked for myself abroad apart from a short spell in UK to get my kids settled.

I worked for two different places on returning to UK (which seemed like a foreign country to me anyway!) and yes the managers were an endless source of amusement for me.

I found the best way to deal them is to blow out of all proportion any and every mistake they made, at every opportunity (plus the usual additions to their beverages).

Needless to say I didn't get past the three months probation on either occasion oh but I had fun. superglued locks, snapped off water cocks and keys in door locks, the works.

My dear brother, revenge surely is sweet and so is the recollection of how some of the w@nkers got stitched up. It was the only way I could deal with the scum and if you're still in the system and going through sh!t I can thoroughly recommend the above strategy.

These days I'm back in the chair, kids settled in UK and happily working for myself over here in the sunshine and life is sweet.

Being a civvy myself but with a father and uncle of ex-navy and ex-army, I'm pretty surprised you're down on us civvies.

You say "Civvies have never been trained or tested in any meaningful way....and that is why they often suck so badly at their jobs."

Is that so? Well shall I just rip my fcuking degree that I earned in '96 (when exams were hard) up then? And my diploma I got before that? Shall I just hang my head in shame?

Grow up.

I could say that there's a lot of dumb fcuk ex-squaddies I worked with on building sites in 1992 who don't have a braincell to share between them, but I wouldn't generalise, so why should you? They might have been great at following orders and making tea but asking the fcukers to mix cement... ha, the 2:1 obviously was too much.

Oh and the first fud who gives me the "we were on the streets of XYZ defending your country while you were doing your degree" - I applied for a role in the army, surpassed the initial tests, and was refused entry by a Major who thought he was more clever than I am. Guess he didn't like the look of my face, I never found out why I was refused. So don't patronise me.

I respect army boys - I work with a couple in my office - but I wouldn't respect snides who look down on me just because they've served.

degree's are ten a penny mate...anyone can get one of them. Just because you was too weak to leave school and wanted to stay in the warm comfort of your classroom instead of getting yourself tested in the real world, dont come on here gobbing off thinking your speshul. Doesnt make you good at your job either, just another gobshiit who thinks he knows everything, when clearly you dont as you only achieved a 2:1.....now get back to your blue sky thinking and setting performance criteria

Which is something civvies never do........















....no matter how much they've had to drink!

Now I really don't know, but I suspect that the 2:1 was a reference to the mix of sand and cement. But I'm happy to be put right.

He didnt let you in because you clearly have an opinion of yourself that no one else agrees with.........do you cry into your pillow every night knowing that you failed even the most simple of man tests that thousands pass every year. Do you attend rememberance every year and big yourself up in the legion, yet really feel ashamed of yourself because you have never proved yourself as a man?...never mind, when your grandchildren ask you in a few years "what did you do for your country grandad" you can answer them as you hide your head in shame...."nothing, I wasnt good enough"

And what's your degree in my man? Oh wait, I'll hear about the Uni Of Life in a minute.

I'm not a manager.

The 2:1 was the sand to cement ratio. You are as dense as the breezeblocks I used to slop round the Queen Margaret hospital

I had enough "outdoor" to last me thanks very much.

A lot of what you say is true. The army is a very small pond, and if you are a SNCO sized fish you are a player. Then you find yourself in the real world (for better or worse that is what it is) where everybody else lives and works. 30'ish, and having to learn from scratch a new business, new environment, new protocols, new rules. It is not easy, but the sooner you accept that for more than half your working life you will be ex-military, the easier it will be.
Being a team player does not help if you want to play Rugby in a Netball match.....

Most of my friends and relatives are civvies - I even married one and had civvy kids - they are not all bad

I cry into my pillow every night thanking God I'm not as dense as you! Thats for sure. I was only 17 then, back in 1990.... he did me a favour I reckon.

Big myself up? Legion? Eh? What are you babbling about?

Having to manage and be managed by indiviuals whose loyalty to the company extends only just below that to their own dustmen.

Managers who think career enhancement is having the last car in the carpark. Senior managers whose philosophy is 'Do as I say, not as I do' and then shirk, blag and conspire with others to actually avoid being held accountable.

Staff whose mantra seems to be 'What's in it for me?' without any thought as to the implications of doing/not doing the task. Finding it alien to go that little bit further without it actually manifesting into ££££££. I'm no mug and don't work for peanuts but if a task needs to be done, get it done and then negotiate/discuss the fallout later.

I'm not even going to go into decision making . . . .

I worked at a place where nearly all the staff were on the take one way or another. Fuel cards being abused, clock cards falsified, excessive overtime signed off for 'mates' and stock being nicked. I battled against it all and was attempted to be fitted-up a couple of times because I never played 'the game'. Luckly for me, HR (at out head-office 70 miles away) knew what was going and threatened to open a larger can of worms where senior careers would be on the line if I was persecuted. I eventually left for a better job and 6 months later they closed the depot. It became too expensive to run because no-one was controlling the budget properly. Ironically it was the same people on the fiddle that were shouting the loudest. No one was offered another job at other depots nearby. Justice was served!

Lastly, bloody Sales managers who by-pass every procedure and protocol regarding delivering stock and getting invoices, to bolster their own commission whilst wrapping it up as 'good for the business'. Money grabbing low-life scum who rate just above amoeba in the Fat-Cav food chain.
Any ARRSEr's out there who are salesman, it's nothing personal I just hate the whole concept of them.

check you out you old sweat....I have a MSc but dont like to brag.....did your daddy touch you in places you pooh from?

My daddy didn't but your dad was ace at it. He knows how to fiddle my pee-pee alright - Mr McIlwraith, is it not? (previous name removed on legal advice - joke)

So anyway bawbag, you have a Masters degree yet no idea how to mix cement? Hmm.

I'm pleased you got your degree, and satisfied that your qualification has served you well. But obviously not as self satisfied as you are about it. I would question whether the army would have suited you as a career, you being sooooo much more intelligent than all those who were in it? This may explain why you were refused entry, The major who thought he was more clever than you, probably was!...You absolute Throbber!
Reference your disdain for those who were on the streets of XYZ while you were at university impressing everyone with your intellect, i suggest you wind your neck in...The truth is you didn't serve did you? And as such don't have a right to comment on a subject you patently know nothing about. Had you had the opportunity to do the job then your perspective would no doubt be different...You sound very bitter about the army turning down someone obviously as "Special" as you are, but hey ho it has managed to cope without your services...Only just mind

I see you know my dad then....and why would I need to know how to mix cement....thats what the poles are for.

Cry me a river. You're not going to start blubbing are you?

Listen, what part of "my father and uncle served" do you not get? How could I not respect army/navy people?

I respect them alright.

Self-satisfied? Me? Not as self-satisfied as some on this thread who think they're better than us civvies.

As for the Major being more intelligent, maybe he was, he did after all have 40 years more life experience than I did. Thanks for clearing that up though!