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The Intelligence Cell

Nelson.Hard as nails.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:58 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Werewolf:
like the Marine Sgt who hates anyone not born in the North of England...

Do you say that like it is a bad thing?

A nice take on the situation is what French kids are taught in school about Trafalgar.

"An inconclusive battle in which the enemy General was killed".

Which is true. The job was finished by a Geordie.

Collingwood.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:04 pm
Author: Bubbles_Barker Location: Somewhere grim and sandy!
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:
like the Marine Sgt who hates anyone not born in the North of England...

Do you say that like it is a bad thing?

A nice take on the situation is what French kids are taught in school about Trafalgar.

"An inconclusive battle in which the enemy General was killed".

Which is true. The job was finished by a Geordie.

Collingwood.

Who very nearly blew it in the 6 day storm afterwards.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:12 pm
Author: Bubbles_Barker Location: Somewhere grim and sandy!
Bradstyley:
DPM_Sheep:
Werewolf:
There was also the famous incident at Waterloo, when one of Wellington's officers had his leg blown off...

Officer: "By God, Sir! My damn legs gone!"

Wellington: "By God, sir, so it has."

The Officer survived and was fitted with a wooden leg. After he died of old age, his family hung the wooden leg on the wall of his home. Smile

That would be Henry Paget, Earl of Uxbridge. Paget had run off with the wife of the Iron Duke's younger brother and Wellington detested him.

Says much for the Duke that he put it aside and made Paget his cavalry commander, because he knew he was the best man for the job.

He was a rather mediocre cavalry commander, he let the Union brigade run out of control after they charged D'Erlons corps and be virtually destroyed, should've positioned himself with the Scots Greys in brigade reserve rather then leading the charge, then the Scots Greys could've charged against the French Lanciers when they counterattacked the rest of the Union brigade.

I can't 'bold' the bit I want to because the whole text is jumping about most irritatingly. But my point is this - Uxbridge was to blame for the Union Brigade over-running and 'going a bit too far'?

Since when were British Cavalry officers, of whatever rank or hue, able to issue any order that would be obeyed other than 'Charge!' British military history is redolent with examples of cavalry being almost completely uncontrolled - see Balaclava, Waterloo, Prince Rupert etc etc.

It simply isn't in the genes.

Still, being well controlled at Waterloo didn't do those Polish Lancers any good at all in the long run did it?

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:27 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Bubbles_Barker:


Who very nearly blew it in the 6 day storm afterwards.

But he didnt. And where was soft, Southern Nancy Boy Nelson? Ah yes. Dead.

Case for the prosecution rests. Geordies defeated the frog. Dont thank us. Its what we do.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:38 pm
Author: Bubbles_Barker Location: Somewhere grim and sandy!
TheIronDuke:
Bubbles_Barker:


Who very nearly blew it in the 6 day storm afterwards.

But he didnt. And where was soft, Southern Nancy Boy Nelson? Ah yes. Dead.

Case for the prosecution rests. Geordies defeated the frog. Dont thank us. Its what we do.

Strange really. Collingwood performed very well in the actual battle but seemed totally unmanned at having to take command at such a crucial time. His failure to anchor after the battle is seen by many as a major error that very nearly cost us all the benefit of the victory.

And of course in real terms, the battle was won by the time southern nancy boy Nelson died!

So, Collingwood - a great Admiral doubtless, but a better 2IC.

Just about right for Geordies! Wink

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:47 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:
like the Marine Sgt who hates anyone not born in the North of England...

Do you say that like it is a bad thing?

A nice take on the situation is what French kids are taught in school about Trafalgar.

"An inconclusive battle in which the enemy General was killed".

Which is true. The job was finished by a Geordie.

Collingwood.

Not at all. The Marine Sgt believed only Geordies were real men because they had been hardend by generations of warfare against the Scottish Border Rievers, who raided deep into the North of England. Raping the women and stealing the cattle. Or vice-versa if the women were fcuk ugly. Wink

No need to thank us for toughning you up, old chap. It's what we do. Very Happy

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:55 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Bubbles_Barker:
Collingwood performed very well in the actual battle but seemed totally unmanned at having to take command at such a crucial time. His failure to anchor after the battle is seen by many as a major error that very nearly cost us all the benefit of the victory.

He was totally 'umanned' because they had just come through a shitstorm and the fleet was battered, broken and scattered over 500 square miles of sea, in a major storm with his boss dead and nobody knowing who had won on away goals.

Jesus. Sue us.

He did not anchour after the battle for several reasons.

1) He did not have a scoobie what was going on
2) Nor did anybody else
3) THE STORM
4) The possibility of the frogs creeping up and blowing him out of the water
4) His internet connection went down. Later, in despatches to Parliament, he blamed BT Home Broadband.

You want a proper Southern hero? Step forward Lieutenant General James Thomas Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan, KCB.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:01 pm
Author: devexwarrior Location: In the back bar of the Ship Inn
One of the Marine officers on board Victory sought out Captain Hardy after the battle to apologise for leaving the deck without the Captains permission. He had, to be fair had his arm blown off, but still felt guilty for not following protocol.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:04 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Werewolf:


Not at all. The Marine Sgt believed only Geordies were real men because they had been hardend by generations of warfare against the Scottish Border Rievers, who raided deep into the North of England. Raping the women and stealing the cattle. Or vice-versa if the women were fcuk ugly. Wink

No need to thank us for toughning you up, old chap. It's what we do. Very Happy

Sorry about Culloden. No hard feelings, eh?

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:05 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
wompingwillow:

Indeed; it has now been proven that Nelson's last words were not, "Kismet, Hardy". They were, in fact, "It's just a flesh-wound..." Shocked Very Happy

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:07 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:


Not at all. The Marine Sgt believed only Geordies were real men because they had been hardend by generations of warfare against the Scottish Border Rievers, who raided deep into the North of England. Raping the women and stealing the cattle. Or vice-versa if the women were fcuk ugly. Wink

No need to thank us for toughning you up, old chap. It's what we do. Very Happy

Sorry about Culloden. No hard feelings, eh?

Since there were at least two Scottish Regiments fighting against Charlie and his Jacobites, no hard feelings at all, old boy! Very Happy

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:17 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Werewolf:


Since there were at least two Scottish Regiments fighting against Charlie and his Jacobites, no hard feelings at all, old boy! Very Happy

Jesus fucking Christ. We have fallen among the Campbells.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:21 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:


Since there were at least two Scottish Regiments fighting against Charlie and his Jacobites, no hard feelings at all, old boy! Very Happy

Jesus fucking Christ. We have fallen among the Campbells.

Actually, I'm a Farquharson. Wink

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:29 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
Werewolf:
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:


Since there were at least two Scottish Regiments fighting against Charlie and his Jacobites, no hard feelings at all, old boy! Very Happy

Jesus fucking Christ. We have fallen among the Campbells.

Actually, I'm a Farquharson. Wink

Try that in the bars up north of Oban, Mr. Campbell.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:33 pm
Author: Bubbles_Barker Location: Somewhere grim and sandy!
TheIronDuke:
Bubbles_Barker:
Collingwood performed very well in the actual battle but seemed totally unmanned at having to take command at such a crucial time. His failure to anchor after the battle is seen by many as a major error that very nearly cost us all the benefit of the victory.

He was totally 'umanned' because they had just come through a shitstorm and the fleet was battered, broken and scattered over 500 square miles of sea, in a major storm with his boss dead and nobody knowing who had won on away goals.

Jesus. Sue us.

He did not anchour after the battle for several reasons.

1) He did not have a scoobie what was going on
2) Nor did anybody else
3) THE STORM
4) The possibility of the frogs creeping up and blowing him out of the water
4) His internet connection went down. Later, in despatches to Parliament, he blamed BT Home Broadband.

You want a proper Southern hero? Step forward Lieutenant General James Thomas Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan, KCB.


Nelson ordered him to anchor before he died.

Presumably because he couldn't trust a chippy Northern type to command the Fleet. Wink

My point is though that Collingwood found it difficult to cope with the pressure of command in such a difficult situation before the storm, not after it.

He's still a great Admiral though. Just not quite Nelson. Or Rodney, Or Hood etc etc.

Which is a pity because for all the vacillation after Trafalgar there was probably none better to take command.

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:34 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:
TheIronDuke:
Werewolf:


Since there were at least two Scottish Regiments fighting against Charlie and his Jacobites, no hard feelings at all, old boy! Very Happy

Jesus fucking Christ. We have fallen among the Campbells.

Actually, I'm a Farquharson. Wink

Try that in the bars up north of Oban, Mr. Campbell.

North of Oban? They think The Wicker Man was a documentary up there! Shocked Twisted Evil

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:57 pm
Author: fozzy Location: The Temple of Mammon
TheIronDuke:
Bubbles_Barker:


Who very nearly blew it in the 6 day storm afterwards.

But he didnt. And where was soft, Southern Nancy Boy Nelson? Ah yes. Dead.

Case for the prosecution rests. Geordies defeated the frog. Dont thank us. Its what we do.

<Cough!>, Nelson was not a Southerner - he was from Norfolk (Burnham Thorpe) and therefore an East Anglian.

I also believe that he was a bit of a "celebrity swordsman", so to speak.

What a guy!

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:52 pm
Author: TheIronDuke Location: Opportunity: Luck.
fozzy:


<Cough!>, Nelson was not a Southerner - he was from Norfolk (Burnham Thorpe) and therefore an East Anglian.

Gosh. Sorry. East Anglia is way up North. Now, if you will excuse me, I must just deal with some uppity Southerners. And a Scotch git.

Bubbles_Barker:

Nelson ordered him to anchor before he died.

But then he died. And with the fleet scattered, and a storm on the way, an nobody knowing who had won or what was going on, he took command and finished the job, like the proper Geordie he was.

Werewolf:


North of Oban? They think The Wicker Man was a documentary up there! Shocked Twisted Evil

Was there? Tell you what. Put your hand in your pocket. Feel around. Pull out a coin.

Who's head is on that coin?

Your Queen? Or ours?

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:56 pm
Author: Werewolf Location: Slightly to the Right of Ghenghis Khan...
TheIronDuke:
fozzy:


<Cough!>, Nelson was not a Southerner - he was from Norfolk (Burnham Thorpe) and therefore an East Anglian.

Gosh. Sorry. East Anglia is way up North. Now, if you will excuse me, I must just deal with some uppity Southerners. And a Scotch git.

Bubbles_Barker:

Nelson ordered him to anchor before he died.

But then he died. And with the fleet scattered, and a storm on the way, an nobody knowing who had won or what was going on, he took command and finished the job, like the proper Geordie he was.

Werewolf:


North of Oban? They think The Wicker Man was a documentary up there! Shocked Twisted Evil

Was there? Tell you what. Put your hand in your pocket. Feel around. Pull out a coin.

Who's head is on that coin?

Your Queen? Or ours?

Where, pray tell, does HM have Her favourite holiday home? Where does she and the DoE go for some R&R? Here's a clue: it's not Newcastle.

And remember that the first King of the United Kingdom was Scottish. Wink

Re: Nelson.Hard as nails.

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:11 am
Author: Bubbles_Barker Location: Somewhere grim and sandy!
TheIronDuke:
fozzy:


<Cough!>, Nelson was not a Southerner - he was from Norfolk (Burnham Thorpe) and therefore an East Anglian.

Gosh. Sorry. East Anglia is way up North. Now, if you will excuse me, I must just deal with some uppity Southerners. And a Scotch git.

Bubbles_Barker:

Nelson ordered him to anchor before he died.

But then he died. And with the fleet scattered, and a storm on the way, an nobody knowing who had won or what was going on, he took command and finished the job, like the proper Geordie he was.

Werewolf:


North of Oban? They think The Wicker Man was a documentary up there! Shocked Twisted Evil

Was there? Tell you what. Put your hand in your pocket. Feel around. Pull out a coin.

Who's head is on that coin?

Your Queen? Or ours?


Lighten up FFS - there's a view that Collingwood 'got away with it' after Trafalgar. It's one that is supported by many historians, sailors and academics.

If you wish to differ then it's worth doing so on a basis that is more than just 'he was a geordie so he must be brilliant'.

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