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> Ask Liam Fox, the Conservative Defence Spokesman
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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:42 am

HectortheInspector:


No workee, no payee.

If only!

lsquared
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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:15 pm

Burning Our Money Blog:
Let's remind ourselves how much of our cash MoD spends. This year it will be £48bn - about 13 pence on the standard rate of income tax - of which £9bn will be spent on capital procurement.

And let's also remind ourself of how they spend that money. In particular, let's recall how few actual fighting men they employ.

According to the latest official stats, total MoD employment is 283,000 (Sept 2008, full-time equivalents). But of that total, the number of people available to fight our wars - the real ones we actually face, like Afghanistan - is no more than about 30,000 (see this blog). Which leaves about 250,000 people who are doing something else. Like running the dysfunctional procurement system.

But can anything be done?

Because whereas we can see how to make education, health, law and order, and various other public services work better - by removing central government right away from the action - with defence it's difficult to see what we can do. We can't privatise it, and while the idea of directly elected generals has some appeal, we're not entirely convinced.

Government has to run defence, and somehow we have to find some way of making them do it more efficiently.


Yes, we should slash the number of desk jocks, and yes, we should insist they buy more off-the-shelf kit from the yanks, and yes, we should scrap all the Cold War kit we're still buying (including the full Trident replacement). But beyond that, it's tricky. Very tricky.

The simple fact is, the King really can't get things done as cheap as other men.

Which is precisely why the King should not be involved in anything beyond law and war.

My bold. It's relatively simple, but massively painful. We need to fundamentally reassess the role of Government, and accept that there are things it should either not do at all, or do to a lesser extent.

Defence is not one of those. It is an essential role of the State.

The downside is that no politician has the balls to do something as career limiting as that.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:17 pm

The people who hand out millions to asylum seekers.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:23 pm

Sell all old uk businesses to european/indian owners for a song.
Allow any fecker in to the uk - including convicted pregnant drug mules.
Turn the uk into a chav ridden filthy doss house.
Let the uk become a floating prison.

Ang on a sec........I'm too late.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:34 pm

Foreign aid - Charity begins at home

Benefits - Get to work you bone idle cnut

MP's expenses - Flat wage. End of discussion

Defence - The Ministry of, not the three uniformed branches

ACPO - We have 40 odd chief cons as it is

Just to name a few off the top of my head. Priorities for the government in order:

1. The Recession - We're skint
2. Defence - We're at war
3. Health Care - Hospitals are bursting
4. Law and Order - Crime is up
5. Education - The newest generation is thick

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:01 pm

Closet_Jibber:

1. The Recession - We're skint - Gordon has saved us! Boom and plenty is just around the corner!

2. Defence - We're at war - Get with the programme! We're 'nation building', not war fighting.

3. Health Care - Hospitals are bursting - The NHS has never been better! The Government says so.

4. Law and Order - Crime is up - Government says it's down, but Hazel seems to have had a bit of a hiccup this morning.

5. Education - The newest generation is thick - Balls says they are cleverer than ever!


Black is white, white is black. Off to the re-education camp for you young man!


But seriously for a minute. Can anyone remember the old Russian english language propaganda broadcasts back in the 70's and 80's? The ones were they were always telling us how productivity and quality of life was up month on month in the USSR and how badly off we were in the West, (Yes I know, but it passed the time when you were on watch).

Notice how similar the governments utterings are sounding to them these days?

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:09 pm

Oil_Slick:
Closet_Jibber:

1. The Recession - We're skint - Gordon has saved us! Boom and plenty is just around the corner!

2. Defence - We're at war - Get with the programme! We're 'nation building', not war fighting.

3. Health Care - Hospitals are bursting - The NHS has never been better! The Government says so.

4. Law and Order - Crime is up - Government says it's down, but Hazel seems to have had a bit of a hiccup this morning.

5. Education - The newest generation is thick - Balls says they are cleverer than ever!


Black is white, white is black. Off to the re-education camp for you young man!


But seriously for a minute. Can anyone remember the old Russian english language propaganda broadcasts back in the 70's and 80's? The ones were they were always telling us how productivity and quality of life was up month on month in the USSR and how badly off we were in the West, (Yes I know, but it passed the time when you were on watch).

Notice how similar the governments utterings are sounding to them these days?

What else do you expect? They're both communist governments.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:11 pm

I'd slash the NHS to the point of providing only life saving (cancer treatment etc) and emergency care in hospitals.

GPs could refer patients straight into the private sector for everything else, paid for by the government, and it would work out cheaper I reckon; the private sector is run as a business, and the hundreds of thousands of "managerial" roles in the NHS would be surplus to requirements. And they'd see the same doctors!

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:43 pm

Hobo-Ken:
CrownImperial:
Not only can the country afford more

The problem is that you are wrong. It can't.

The other cuts you propose would be a good start, but any idea that the money will go anywhere other than towards paying off our now MASSIVE debt is cloud-cuckoo-land.

It's the new reality, my friend. Time to get used to it: there will be no more money for Defence from Lab, Con, Lib Dem, or anyone else. And probably a lot less.

Like it or lump it, I'm afraid.

If we can afford 60Billion to Europe, and >12billion for the Olympics, we can afford more money for the forces.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:48 pm

CrownImperial:
Hobo-Ken:
CrownImperial:
Not only can the country afford more

The problem is that you are wrong. It can't.

The other cuts you propose would be a good start, but any idea that the money will go anywhere other than towards paying off our now MASSIVE debt is cloud-cuckoo-land.

It's the new reality, my friend. Time to get used to it: there will be no more money for Defence from Lab, Con, Lib Dem, or anyone else. And probably a lot less.

Like it or lump it, I'm afraid.

If we can afford 60Billion to Europe, and >12billion for the Olympics, we can afford more money for the forces.

Spot on. We can't afford those either. But you STILL need to get real and accept that the "expensive gucci kit" fairy is not going to be visiting any time soon.

Sorry - but that's just the way it is. Sign off if you can't face the facts.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:33 pm

Make long-term investment in gas chambers, associated rail links and infrastructure - then wait for the welfare and crime to plummit.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:02 pm

ok lets begin,

stop all overseas aid, I dont remember the last time I got anything off any other country,

make prisioners grow there own food,
also sterilize criminal familys, were son follows father ect.

pull all troops from overseas,except for training, secure our boarders,

leave the eu, but keep trade links, like norway.

leave NATO our kick the countrys that dont pull there weight, whats the point in being in an aliance, with countrys that hide there troops in safe areas.

make people who use casualty ever friday or saturday when they are drunk pay.

death sentance for Heroine dealers, kiddie fiddlers and cop killers.

allow people to smoke cannabis, there gonna need it living in a country with my laws.

national service for anyone umemployed for over 6 months and not in higher education are with illness.

double prison terms for corrupt Police, politicians, pop stars footballers doing drugs , being like joey barton ect, they should all lead by example.

no helicopers to play golf for the Royal family.

scrap id cards,

nationalize energy companys, that are robbing, yes robbing, the general population.

deport any person seeking asylum, whos passed though one other safe europeon country to reach the uk, if i was running for my life i would stop at the next safe place.

make muslims wear top hats, after all there make our news reporters wear scarfs ect, this ones just for my own fun.

make saint georges day a national holiday, and no ive nothing to do with the bnp,

scrap road tax and put it on fuel,

make prison more like us jails, also sentencing, ever watch them cop shows were they get 20 years and for the same crime here 3 months.

scrap the tv license fee, the bbc can encrypt there programs like sky, or else die a death.

this has taken me 5 mins to do, imagine what damage I could do giving more.

If Ive upset some people then sorry, I'LL try harder to upset the rest next time. Very Happy

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:08 pm

National Health Service

One: Its a financial black hole withered by bureaucracy and short-term'ism

Two: The problems of an aging population with long-term chronic illnesses, and high levels of obesity will not go away.

Its time for a new social contract between State and Citizen

Basic health care should be a right; but advanced health care under a new social insurance payment is required to stem the rot

moving-target-survivor
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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:10 pm

Hobo-Ken:
CrownImperial:
Hobo-Ken:
CrownImperial:
Not only can the country afford more

The problem is that you are wrong. It can't.

The other cuts you propose would be a good start, but any idea that the money will go anywhere other than towards paying off our now MASSIVE debt is cloud-cuckoo-land.

It's the new reality, my friend. Time to get used to it: there will be no more money for Defence from Lab, Con, Lib Dem, or anyone else. And probably a lot less.

Like it or lump it, I'm afraid.

If we can afford 60Billion to Europe, and >12billion for the Olympics, we can afford more money for the forces.

Spot on. We can't afford those either. But you STILL need to get real and accept that the "expensive gucci kit" fairy is not going to be visiting any time soon.

Sorry - but that's just the way it is. Sign off if you can't face the facts.


Yeah but my point is, we are still going to be footing these bills despite our debt, and it's thoroughly likely defense will suffer instead of these.

Just on the order or priorities as to where cuts should be made before defense, there are hundreds of other places to make savings, the forces have existed on a constant atmosphere of thrift since WWII, and thus we have an amazingly good value set up in terms of the Three forces.

Can't remember where I read it, but it was said the forces are a victim of our own 'can-do' attitude. Because after every swing of the axe, we adapt and overcome instead of imploding as lesser departments would, ministers are able to point out that we don't need the money, and we can constantly make do with less. Imagine this situation being applied to the NHS, or the Police? Sorry, we've done with thrift for long enough and we can't take much more, cut the money from somewhere else.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:34 pm

How about do away with the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly (and the N Ireland Assembly) and devolve most powers that can be devolved down to County / Borough council level.

Pay for it ? .... Local income tax, then it will be local (yeah, I know) politicians who set the level of service and charge for it, efficiently or not.

This would sort out local politics, get the electorate interested in the local polls, voting in good people, and firing the shambles that are in our town halls today...Maybe be an improvement on the current bollix, who knows?

Central government should then be responsible for NATIONAL affairs... Defence, National Security (inc intelligence), Foreign Policy, Law, etc.

And again - Pay for it ? We already pay the Westminster crowd / Devolved Govt. to fcuk up local affairs so we should pay LESS in national income tax.

Strangely enough it used to work that way

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:04 pm

My take.

Give prisoners an education and training in those skills we are short of - in one stroke cut recidivism. That way we won't have to pay so much on the prison service.

Decriminalise heroin but make addicts take their hits in centres or, if a small town, pharmacys. Take the thieving out of addiction and costs will fall.

Lose Trident, we can't afford it.

Lose ID cards.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:12 pm

Good point made just now - lose ID cards ( know how easy it is - cost me a lot when I lost mine....)

Seriously, ID cards are dead in the water - does anyone seriously believe they will have any effect on crime or terrorism? Even more pertinently, why should we actually trust the Local Council and others with that info?

If you do, read this:

"The government must be quietly grateful to the distractions of August. Only Computer Weekly noticed that nine local authority workers have been sacked for accessing the personal records of celebrities, and their acquaintances held on the core database of the government's ID scheme.

This is a significant story because government ministers have always dismissed campaigners' claims that once all personal information is stored in a single database it will become vulnerable to abuse by those with access to the system. Ministers have repeatedly insisted that security will be absolute and that severe penalties will deter anyone tempted to read files illegally.

Not true. The magazine's website reported that the nine fired were among 34 people who illegally accessed information. Some were reprimanded, some resigned and some were sacked but none was prosecuted. Using a freedom of information request, Computer Weekly found that Cardiff and Glasgow Councils sacked people who had looked up celebrities in the customer information system (CIS) which is run by the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) and contains 90 million records. Various other councils sacked people for looking up their friends, their own details and in one instance, a girlfriends.

The really important point is that these cases come from sample checks, this raises the prospect that the security of CIS is in fact much more regularly breached. "Over 200,000 government officials have access to the database," says the website, "including 480 local authorities, and numerous government departments, including the Department of Work and Pensions, HM Revenue & Customs, and the Courts Service. The Child Support Agency uses the CIS to trace missing parents." "


And this from The Guardian Smile
www.guardian.co.uk/com...ase-breach

So a random check revealed this lot of scumbags - think what a full check would do............

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:25 pm

bin the arts council
I don't subsidize people who want to go watch football.
they don;t subsidize my laughable attempts at rock climbing or my fondness for crap sci fi.
why should non opera/ballet/theater goers pay for it.

and as for the "dead soldier type artist" why Mad

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:34 pm

I would reallocate 50% of the budget for the Royal Air Force to the Army.

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Re: If you were PM... where would you cut back?

Post Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:42 pm

duffdike:
I would reallocate 50% of the budget for the Royal Air Force to the Army.

Yeah that would help them buy more chinooks. Good plan!

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