Thats not what I heard, I've heard NavyNet delayed deployment of some systems until DII(F) came in.

Yep 100% correct......... reason? NavyNet was outsourced in Increment 1 and should have been completely replaced 2 years ago. Instead not even 50% has been completed with no budget for any upgrades or replacement of hardware. Jolly Jack really got stiffed on that deal

Wasn't NavyNet done by EDS - the main player in ATLAS??? How did EDS manage to avoid the NHS's NPfIT project, may they aren't that daft afteral.

I'm really glad that I have all of this to look forward to when I migrate in Mar 09...

Where would be be without challenges?

I'm based in Edinburgh and our site was "upgraded" to DII/F in Nov 08. During the convoluted process each user was without access to any system for two days at least, due to data migration and hardware replacement.

The whole site was without email access for about 10 days and me personally for three weeks due to a major c**ck up with DNS associations.

There were a multitude of other issues regarding printers which were left with no network connections for upto 4 days until a maintenance engineer attended - whilst the ATLAS installation team was still on site. The stock answer given by the installers was to report any problem to the SPOC.

I had to report my email problem 7 times before it was resolved. On 4 occasions I was told the problem was fixed, only to find that it was not, and had no option but to raise another fault for the same problem. Eventually I raised a complaint, and even after that I was told wrongly the problem was solved on two further occasions.

To top it all when I was contacted to ask if the complaint could be closed - I asked for an explanation of what the problem was, and why it had taken so long to resolve. I was fobbed off with a load of bo***cks.

To this date there are still people experiencing problems associated with the introduction of DII/F. I would like to say that the whole experience was less than satisfactory, the reduced speeds and extended refresh times for browsing very disappointing - would I recommend this system to a friend ? - definitely not.

well i've dealt with an ATLAS enterprise admin chap...who didn't understand after he (i didn't have perms) changed the IP of a server WHY he couldn't ping the HOST name...err think we need to reboot the server say's he...err think you need to run ipconfig /registerdns Says I - MCSE? my arse

The new Xerox printers for F cost the MoD nothing, because they cost ATLAS nothing. The manufacturer supplies the printer for free with a half filled tonner cartridge/s and then charge a small fortune for consumables.

What do you think the chances are that Fujitsu desktops will be rolled out at the tech refresh in 2 years? Now that HP are the prime contractor?

Almost as slim as there being a tech refresh in 2 years.

Almost as slim as there being a tech refresh in 2 years.[/quote]

Crikey how cynical!

Crikey how cynical! :)[/quote]

Nope it's just not in the contract

You will have also noticed that the majority of hardware is Dell on the first roll out rather than Fujitsu kit - so about the same chance as the first time.

HP is more realsitic now they have bought into / aquired / merged with one of the major Atlas partners.

A day in the life of DII(F)

Phone call to SPOC hello whats your problem mmmmmmmm let me think DII is broken pause ok log job
Two hours later call back can we close job please mmmmmmmmmmmm no its still broken oh we thought it was working mmmmmmmmmmmmm no thats why im sitting here pulling hair out, two hours latter call can we close job please mmmmmmmmmm no its still broken oh im sorry ill pass it up the chain, one hour latter geek/mong arrive's ive come to fix your machine oh cheers mate oh sorry i cnt fix it i do not have the access/permisions to do that ok geek/mong do one im off home, Next day call can we close job please ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh heart attack down phone and its still been three bloody weeks and its only a bloody printer and a cd thingy.

Where do you start with when complaining about IT gone mad. I was recently told because of our situation at an RAF Base we would have to pay DII(F) £500 / month / PC (32 in all) or approx £16k a month just to support our little add on network. This is not one isolated case and since us RE types like CAD and other DII(F) difficult software packages we are left stranded.

We should use some standard 252 MOD encryption software to send Restricted stuff over normal internet over fast broadband which by the way doesn't cost anything like the sample above and would have been massively cheaper than a fraction of what DII does. We do not need massive support systems just local support and a good virus package.

Everyone uses their own kit these days because it works, is virus free and we can use VOIP, ITunes, FasttrackTV, and use the real internet without the millions of restrictions, we can use, and Synch a PDA / Phone to keep us on track with appointments.

Sack DII and get mobile Broadband Laptops issued to individuals. Set up a domain and website so we can access Restricted emails and above info online. Afterall higher levels of security info is piped down BT lines as we speak so is not new.

We really have missed the boat with our IT management and can not possibly keep up with the civilian industry when shackled to cold war thinking and security hangups.

Watch us throw all the IT away again when DII(G) comes out. Its a disgrace if you ask me. What grips me is the amount of money being pumped into DIIsaster. Some one needs to plug this hole and fast.

In answer - NO

NAVYNET is an Infrastructure on which systems such as Navystar ran. Navynet was/is EADS. Navystar is Fujitsu

One thing to also take into account is that for some of the support teams, they were ex MoD who were Tupeed across when it was outsourced....

A couple of points you may all like to take into consideration (having sat through a couple of these meetings)

Each site will have a Project/Implementation Manager from both ATLAS and MoD
All issues found by ATLAS should be escalated to the MoD side and vice versa
Work is carried out before sites are migrated, depending on who you are/what site your on its called Discovery or something similar. ATLAS rely on the co-operation on the people (Military, Civil Service & Contractors) to provide the correct information to allow work to be completed on time and with as little interruption as possible

Having been involved in work on 4 sites then im sorry but a lot of those who are 'SMEs' from the Mod/Forces side really do not have much idea other than we switch it on here or if it goes wrong we talk to Fred.....

Where Depts. 'find' old kit and decide to use it for their own little projects but stick it on a live network this also causes problems as trying to find someone who knows how the thing was cobbled together can be all but impossible especially when it was put in place by someone who has left or gone on deployment and the documentation is non existent.

And a major bug bear is getting someone in MoD to make a decision when they change their minds or something 'non standard' is discovered or a site suddenly decides it wants more UADs after the original site documentation/paperwork is signed off.

Im not saying ATLAS is perfect but then neither are the users.....

There's clearly a lot of synergy between MoD and Atlas then, as most of the Atlas so-called SMEs also seem to have little idea what they are doing. You also have to make your mind up - if you tell them that their first response is to phone Fred and exclude them from anything further then what do you expect? Remember that only a tiny proportion of the military community are ICT-oriented. After all, technology per se is not the "core business" of the MoD. That allows Atlas to deploy the old "smoke and mirrors" business model to good effect. Remember that lots of us have seen how EDS is depressingly and consistently bad at delivering projects to the public sector. Unfortunately for the taxpayer and the supposed customer, they are a massive multinational company who can deploy huge economies of scale to promise a "cheap as chips" system to the budget-holders.

The problem is the IM (Implementation manager, Atlas) and the Project manager (Site Manager, MoD) usually are both inept. In the first case we have someone who’s usually Ex sigs...and hasn’t got a clue about enterprise networking etc…and secondly a Civil Servant who’s both inept concerning IT and apathetic to spending Tax payers money.

The discovery you refer to is captured in the early stages and the document produced is the IPL. Now think for a moment…in an organization like the MoD (I will refer to the Army) how can you tie down a moving target! Both parties are to blame for going firm on this one.

Irrespective of the above your analogy of ‘SME’s’ is both unfounded and obtuse. The ‘in-house’ IT support i.e. chaps (some of them)working at DE&S have enough IT knowledge to understand a network (DII) which is based on the same technology as the existing LAND system which has worked perfectly well…so please don’t patronise.

Yes mistakes have been made by G6 (again fuelled by the incompetent civil servants who walk the corridors)….who forget to inform ATLAS about applications that need to be migrated/integrated into DII/F. BUT that doesn’t stop roll-outs of DII/F UAD’S, because ATLAS can ignore the integration oversight and charge heavily for T&I processes and implementation.

SO…is it the MoD’s fault that all DII/F future roll-outs in BFG are being put on an indefinite hold? NO…the data centre's at Gutersloh have run out of capacity and NO more users can be added to F (no users can be added to AD because all profiles and mailboxes are held at the centralised data enter, which has no disk space available)…what's the upshot…well from a MoD perspective good and bad…Good because the MoD can charge ATLAS 200 quid a month for every UAD that hasn’t been delivered on time, due to ATLAS (no capacity) and BAD because the existing LAND users have now to rely on local Fujitsu hardware ‘engineers’ who haven’t a clue about software…and SLA agreements have been scrapped concerning LAND.

And to wrap up…I have personal experience of the ATLAS IM in BFG (DG ) and he is a complete and utter incompetent tw*t…and his colleagues in FujitsuI and EADS agree….now ATLAS sort your act out and employ people who actually know a thing or two about IT and PM.

RANT OVER!

I thought DII F had been cancelled as it had run out of money?

DII(F) just gets better and better no printers at work today phoned SPOK no probs eng chap turns up two hours latter good drills me thinks not a bad call out time,eng chap looks at printer says it looks ok to me and its not a server prob cnt help sorry bye bye . SPOK phones me can we close call please as problem fixed mmmmm deep in thought I pipe up no chap its no just my printer but the whole HQ ahhhhh says he some one else will call two calls later tec geek calls all your drivers are stuffed will reinstall at midnight. Call ten mins after that can we close the call, what is it with these idiots cheap kit, crap service,.low work out put.